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(Background noise might make this episode a challenging listen.)
Episode image is a detail from the cover of The Shipping News by Annie Proulx, published in 2003 by Schribner; cover design by Archie Ferguson; Cover etching by David Blackwood, Hauling Job Sturge’s House, etching, 13”x32”, 1979, edition of 50.
Content Note: Towards the end of the podcast, Greg and Charles Adrian talk about the radio play The Air Gap, which Greg had starred in, and which told the story of Chelsea Manning. At the time of recording this conversation, Chelsea Manning was still known publicly by her deadname, which is used during the conversation. She is also misgendered here.
This is the fifth Second Hand Book Factory and this week’s guest is writer and performer Greg Wohead. Greg and Charles Adrian stumble upon the limitations of Greg’s Texan accent, discuss reading Murakami and relive a little slice of the nineties. Oh, and they fail to agree on the pronunciation of Annie Proulx – any suggestions warmly welcomed. This is a lovely, gentle half-hour of chat with a seasoned storyteller, whose performances in various parts of the country you should definitely check out.
Another book by Haruki Murakami, Dance, Dance, Dance, is discussed in Page One 16.
The Shipping News by Annie Proulx is also discussed in Page One 158.
This episode was recorded at the Wilton Way Café for London Fields Radio.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 13th November, 2012.
Book listing:
What I Talk About When I Talk About Running by Haruki Murakami
The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (trans. Katherine Woods)
The Shipping News by Annie Proulx
Links:
Episode Transcript:
Jingle
You're listening... you're listening to London Fields Radio.
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the... I think it's the 11th edition of Page One. This is the 5th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm here with Greg Wohead. My name's Charles Adrian. What else do I need to say? I'm in the Wilton Way Cafe. This is... This is London Fields Radio. I'm going to start today with some of Greg's music, which is new to me. This is Townes Van Zandt [/zænt /]... Zandt [/sænt/] - he'll tell me in a moment if I've said that right - with I'll Be Here In The Morning.
Music
[I'll Be Here In The Morning by Townes Van Zandt]
Charles Adrian
So that was Townes Van Zandt and... with I'll Be Here In The Morning. Thanks for introducing me to Townes Van Zandt, Greg.
Greg Wohead
[speaking over] Yeah, of course. My pleasure. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
And... and I can't remember... I can't remember your name... the guy who's play...
Chris
It's Chris.
Charles Adrian
Chris!
Greg and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
Stupid. Chris is... Chris, who works here, he's going to be playing Townes Van Zandt this evening, he told us.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
So, hello Greg.
Greg Wohead
Hi.
Charles Adrian
Hi! Thanks for coming along.
Greg Wohead
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Charles Adrian
It's very exciting to have you here in the...
Greg Wohead
Yeah... yeah.
Charles Adrian
... in the Wilton Way Cafe opposite me. We're... First... So, I should start by asking you, as I do everybody: Greg Wohead, how would you describe yourself? How would you describe... If this were... if this were an interview in a magazine or something like that, Greg Wohead comma...
Greg Wohead
Hmm. That... It's a tough one. I always struggle with that one. I usually just say writer... writer and performer is what I usually say.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Writer and performer.
Greg Wohead
Keep it a little bit vague...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah.
Greg Wohead
... I guess. Because a lot of people... I guess a lot of people that do sim... some of the sort of work I... I tend to do is... call themselves, maybe, a theatre maker or...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Greg Wohead
... or something like that but... or some people just say maker. I don't know.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] 'Maker'. That sounds... really...
Greg Wohead
... which is a little... I don't know. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] There's something a little bit epic about that.
Greg Wohead
So I just say writer and performer and, kind of, leave it at that.
Charles Adrian
That's nice. I think that's... that's good.
Greg Wohead
Yes.
Charles Adrian
That seems to cover a lot of ground.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Charles Adrian
That gives you a lot of space to move around.
Greg Wohead
Exactly.
Charles Adrian
I think we should just move... We should start with... with the book that you've brought...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... that you like.
Greg Wohead
Great. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
This... So, for anybody who... for whom this is their first Second Hand Book Factory... shame on you, first of all... but the... so the... the first book is the book... I've asked Greg to bring a book that he likes. This is just a window into your... into your world, essentially.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Okay. Cool. Do you want me to talk about it first or read it and then talk about it?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah... Um... We could do it either way round. What would you prefer?
Greg Wohead
I'll read it first.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
I'll read it first.
Charles Adrian
Good.
Greg Wohead
Okay. So this is the first page of What I Talk About When I Talk About Running by Haruki Murakami. So I'm actually going to start... So the very first page here is the foreword. And the title is Suffering Is Optional. And it says:
THERE'S A WISE saying that goes like this: A real gentleman never discusses women he's broken up with or how much tax he's paid. Actually, this is a total lie. I just made it up. Sorry! But if there really were such a saying, I think that one more condition for being a gentleman would be keeping quiet about what you do to stay healthy. A gentleman shouldn't go on and on about what he does to stay fit. At least that's how I see it.
As everybody knows, I'm no gentleman, so maybe I shouldn't be worrying about this to begin with, but still, I'm a little hesitant about writing this book. This might come off sounding like a dodge, but this is a book about running, not a treatise on how to be healthy. I'm not try...
Charles Adrian
I love it when the first page ends in the middle of a word...
Greg Wohead
[laughing] Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... that's even more...
Greg Wohead
[laughing] Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... exciting.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
So why... why this... why this book?
Greg Wohead
So I... I really love this book because I read it... it's one of those books I read every now and then, just over and over. It's really short and really easy to read. And it's by Haruki Murakami, who I... he writes a lot of novels...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
... and I really love his novels. But this isn't a novel, this is a book about... It's a kind of nonfiction, sort of, partial memoir kind of book.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Greg Wohead
And it's, kind of, about writing... writing... writing stories and things not riding horses...
Charles Adrian
Right!
Greg Wohead
[laughs] ... and...
Charles Adrian
That's your gentle, soft...
Greg Wohead
[speaking over] ... and running.
Charles Adrian
... American pronunciation.
Greg Wohead
I got confused by my own accent.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Greg Wohead
And running. And so...
Charles Adrian
Writing and running.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Aha.
Greg Wohead
When I first read it, I... or... The first time I read it, I was really into writing and I was like “Oh, this'll help me with, like, creativity and stuff”.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Uh huh.
Greg Wohead
And I read it and I loved it. And then, a few years later, I started getting into running, which I'd never ever done before, and I ran my first half marathon, which is a really amazing, just, experience for myself, like, personally.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Greg Wohead
And I read it again in preparation for that. And then it was amazing for the running aspect as well.
Charles Adrian
Wow.
Greg Wohead
And so...
Charles Adrian
So you're, kind of, inspired on both sides by...
Greg Wohead
Yeah, totally.
Charles Adrian
... by this.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I have to admit that I... well, I haven't read this collection. I'm a big fan of Haruki Murakami. I think... I can't remember which friend it was I mentioned Har... Murakami's name to...
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Hmm.
Charles Adrian
... and their response was “Oh god, he is so boring about running”. That was their...
Greg Wohead
Really? [gasps]
Charles Adrian
Yeah, that was their response.
Greg Wohead
No! That... I totally disagree with that. Wow. That's amazing...
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Greg Wohead
... and unbelievable that someone said that.
Greg and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
I... Yeah. It may or may not be true that I don't remember who it is.
Greg Wohead
[speaking over] Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I'm shielding their identity.
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
But... um... Yeah, Okay. I'll have to look that up. I've read... yes...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... because I discovered him a while ago by chance, I think. I can't remember why... I think it was just... There was an edition of Norwegian Wood in a shop that I was in and it was a...
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Hmm.
Charles Adrian
... particularly interesting... It was in a box. And so I bought it. And I... That wasn't my favourite... That... It... Well, it isn't my favourite of his novels but I...
Greg Wohead
Yeah I know.
Charles Adrian
... I liked it very much and I like the translation.
Greg Wohead
Yeah, same. I read... That was the first of his novels that I read and I...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Ah. Interesting coincidence.
Greg Wohead
... it's not... it's not one of my favourites, no.
Charles Adrian
Right.
Greg Wohead
Yeah, definitely.
Charles Adrian
So now I'm going to play... I'm going to play my first music choice. I'm now... I was... I was feeling really excited about this when I... when I chose this but I'm now a little bit embarrassed. This... I've chosen this because as... as you've already demonstrated, you're a Texan, aren't you?
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
This is... This is... This is by Texas. This is...
Greg Wohead
Uh huh.
Charles Adrian
... a little bit of home...
Greg Wohead
Great.
Charles Adrian
... for you.
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
This is Texas with Say What You Want.
Music
[Say What You Want by Texas]
Charles Adrian
That was Say What You Want by Texas.
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
Now, this section is... is always dangerous. This is the book that I've chosen to give to my guest, who today is Greg Wohead. I'm... I'm pretty sure you will have read this. I'm... I'm almost sure that you will have a copy of this. This is the kind of book that I... A lot of people have it and I think you, of all people, will have it but I... I don't know why, I looked at it in my... on my shelf and I thought: This is... This is what I want to give you. When I... So when I first came across you, it was in the guise of a storyteller...
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
... and that's... In my head, that's how I think of you. I think of as a... as a storyteller. You're a beautiful storyteller. And you were telling the story of - what was it? The Great Texas Jailbreak or something? What was the name of the...
Greg Wohead
Oh yeah.
Charles Adrian
With slides that you'd drawn.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. I don't know if... I don't know if it had a title.
Charles Adrian
Did it not?
Greg Wohead
I can't remember... I can't remember.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Maybe Vera gave it a title when she invited you...
Greg Wohead
Maybe.
Charles Adrian
... to perform.
Greg Wohead
Maybe. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] This was the Samantha's Sunday Night Supper Club.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. It was about a night spent in jail in Texas.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
So this has nothing to do with jail or Texas but it is a... it is a story...
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... it is a story and I... the reason I thought of it was because I think it's... it's a... it's a story that is beautifully told and very simple. It's The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. I assume you've read it.
Greg Wohead
No, I've never read it.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No! Really?
Greg Wohead
I know of it. I've heard it... It's one of those that every... like, I hear everyone... like, it comes up a lot but... never read it. No.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh jackpot. I feel totally... This... So I just... This is... I... yeah. So I just need to trust my instincts more.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
This is obviously right. So you have to read this. This is... I think, more than... It's a very beautiful story, it's a very... Obviously, it's a fable. Lots of people talk about how... It's famously dedicated to his friend Leon Werth “when he was a little boy”. But the whole point of his dedication is that adults need these kinds of stories just as much as children do and that stories... storytelling... I think storytelling is a very grown-up thing to do. So this is a children's story but I think incredibly beautiful to read as an adult. And I like the way he goes about telling the story. And I particularly like the beginning because it is... it's quite surprising, even though I... I've read the story a few times and I still didn't remember how it... how it started. I'm going to read you the beginning. Here goes:
Chapter 1
Once when I was six years old I saw a beautiful picture in a book about the primeval forest called True Stories. It showed a boa constrictor swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
And then there's an illustration of the drawing which is of a boa constrictor swallowing an animal.
The book stated: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole without chewing it whereupon they can no longer move and sleep for six months digesting it.”
I then reflected deeply upon the adventures in the jungle and in turn succeeded in making my first...
Charles Adrian
And that's the first page.
Greg Wohead
Great.
Charles Adrian
And that's... And I... You're going to have to read it...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I love the way it moves from there into this story...
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
It is the most magnificent shift of... I don't know what of but it's the most magnificent narrative shift and it works beautifully. There you go. There's your copy of The Little Prince it cost me £1.25 from HMV.
Greg Wohead
Thank you so much.
Charles Adrian
Treasure that. And I'm going to play...
Greg Wohead
[indistinct]
Charles Adrian
I'm going to play another of your choices now.
Greg Wohead
Okay great.
Charles Adrian
This is... You gave me several things to choose from. I haven't chosen this because I like it, I've just chosen it because I would never ever ever play it myself.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I was never a Smashing Pumpkins fan, for better or worse.
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
I don't know why. I know that it's very much... They were a band of my teenage years, I suppose.
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
A lot of my friends were fans. But I never really listened to their stuff.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
So I'm going to play Smashing Pumpkins and I'm going to play Bullet... This is Bullet With Butterfly Wings. I think that's an amazing title.
Greg Wohead
[laughing] Yeah, I do too. I love the title... the image.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So... So let this... let this title resonate as you... as you listen to this. This is Bullet With Butterfly Wings by The Smashing Pumpkins.
Music
[Bullet With Butterfly Wings by Smashing Pumpkins]
Jingle
London Fields Radio... It's London Fields Radio.
Charles Adrian
So, back we are for the last section of the show on London Fields Radio. This is... This is Page One, the Second Hand Book Factory. I'm here with Greg Wohead. What is your book for me?
Greg Wohead
Okay. My book for you is The Shipping News by Annie Proulx [/pruːl/].
Charles Adrian
How do you pronounce... How do you say that? Proulx [/pruːl/]?
Greg Wohead
Oh, I just made up a way and went with it. I just said Proulx [/pruːl/]. Proulx [/pruːl/]?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Ah, you see, I... when I... [indistinct]
Greg Wohead
How do you say it?
Charles Adrian
No, well, I always ignore the L. I ignore the L and the X both. I just say Proulx [/pruː/].
Greg Wohead
Maybe that's it.
Charles Adrian
I've no idea.
Greg Wohead
That could well be right.
Charles Adrian
I find with names, if there are too many components all jumbled together, especially at the end...
Greg Wohead
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... I tend to...
Greg Wohead
Skip them.
Charles Adrian
... skip them.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Leave them out.
Greg Wohead
It's a good rule of thumb, I guess.
Charles Adrian
But Okay.
Greg Wohead
So, her.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So, The Shipping News. Right.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Which I haven't read. That's good.
Greg Wohead
Okay. Great. So the... I love this book. I think it's really beautifully written and it's... I'm... I think it'd be fun to read out loud, actually, because the words are really lovely.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Greg Wohead
And I wanted to... I think... I wanted to give it to you because I... partly because I love it so much and I've been hanging on to it for a while but had... not reading it again...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Greg Wohead
So I thought somebody else should read this. So...
Charles Adrian
It's, like, a sort of life clearance moment.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. I'm going to... Hang on... Okay. So:
1
Quoyle
Quoyle: A coil of rope.
'A Flemish flake is a spiral coil of one layer only. It is made on deck, so that it may be walked on if necessary.'
The Ashley Book Of Knots.
And there's an image here of a coil of rope.
Here is an account of a few years in the life of Quoyle, born in Brooklyn and raised in a shuffle of dreary upstate towns.
Hive-spangled, gut roaring with gas and cramp, he survived childhood; at the state university, hand clapped over his chin, he camouflaged torment with smiles and silence. Stumbled through his twenties and into his thirties learning to separate his feelings from his life, counting on nothing. He ate prodigiously, liked a ham knuckle, buttered spuds.
His jobs: distributor of vending machine candy, all-night clerk in a convenience store, a third-rate newspaperman. At thirty-six, bereft, brimming with grief and thwarted love, Quoyle steered away to Newfoundland, the rock that had generated his ancestors, a place he had never been nor thought to go.
Here you are.
Charles Adrian
Thank you very much. I also like a... was it a pig knuckle it was called? Ham knuckle.
Greg Wohead
Ham knuckle, yeah.
Charles Adrian
I also... yeah...
[electrical interference]
Charles Adrian
Oh, is that your phone? I should have told you to...
Greg Wohead
It's not.
Charles Adrian
No? It might be mine.
Greg Wohead
[speaking over] I don't think so.
Charles Adrian
But... So. Now, we are... The... We're at the end... the... the people here are putting the cafe to bed.
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I wanted to ask you quickly... You were recently... This, actually, I find very exciting. You were recently in Boz Temple-Morris's production of The Air Gap.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You starred in that. I think... I think Boz Temple-Morris is one... is one of the most exciting radio... possibly the most exciting radio director and producer...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... working at the moment.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Totally. He does amazing work.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] How... How was that for you?
Greg Wohead
It was... It was fantastic. I mean, first of all, it was just amazing to be a part of something that feels important...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Greg Wohead
... like that. You know, something that's real and, kind of, current and very, like, much... very important.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes... For anyone who didn't catch it... Unfortunately, it's only on iPlayer for seven days. It was a... It was a play about Bradley Manning*.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Yeah. Bradley Manning* who leaked information about the US military to WikiLeaks, What was interesting about that was... which was great about that was getting into the character of the...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Greg Wohead
... you know... of, like, figuring out the kind of thought process and the background and everything that could lead up to a decision like that...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
... which is the really exciting thing about working on that piece as an actor.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
And also because he's* per... just, kind of, personally, really, he's a really interesting person - his whole background and... and how he ended up in the situation that he ended up in...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
... just being in the military in the first place... at all, you know.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
And... And all the...
Charles Adrian
It sounds like it was a whole series of amazing decisions that led to him* still being there even...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... beyond the point at which he* should probably have been called back or given something else to do.
Greg Wohead
[speaking over] Yeah, exactly. These kind of, like... Because of the way that he* was... You know, he was quite small...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Greg Wohead
... you know, gay and... which, in the military is... I imagine would... is, kind of tough...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Pretty hard, I imagine.
Greg Wohead
... and the way that... that... that presumably - and by all accounts - he* was, kind of, treated by other, you know, people in the military...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
... made it quite a difficult experience.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
And all those things plus, you know, there were... According to some of the things that he* said and... and, you know, wrote to people, he had a lot of, kind of, confusion over... over gender identity and things like that...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Greg Wohead
... as well... I mean, and had gone through this huge breakup and all these things...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
That's this, kind of, mental state...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So much going on.
Greg Wohead
... when combined with access to this material... this information...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
... this... that was quite... you know... what a lot of people would consider to be very disturbing and...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Greg Wohead
... and...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Greg Wohead
... and the... and... and also the means to release this information...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Greg Wohead
... that... all that stuff combined...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] All that coming together. Yes.
Greg Wohead
Yeah, it's really...
Charles Adrian
And at a time when we're... lots of people are asking what... what... what is the treasonable act? Is the treasonable act releasing this...
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
... kind of information or is the treasonable act behaving in this way in the first place...
Greg Wohead
[affirmative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
... in the way that the information leads us to believe that people...
Greg Wohead
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... behaved. So if you... If anybody sees that The Air Gap is on again, jump on it. I want to thank Greg Wohead for being my guest today.
Greg Wohead
Oh. Thank you. It was very... It was very fun.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Thank you so much for my book.
Greg Wohead
Yeah. Thank you.
Charles Adrian
This has been... This has been really fun. I'm going to finish with a... This is really to honour Bradley* Manning. This is this is Blur's No Distance Left To Run.
Music
[No Distance Left To Run by Blur]
* When this episode was recorded, Chelsea Manning was still known publicly by her deadname; it was also not generally known that she is a woman.
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]