Find Page One on APPLE PODCASTS or STITCHER.
SCROLL DOWN FOR EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
(Background noise might make this episode a challenging listen.)
Episode image is a detail from the cover of Ocean Sea by Alessandro Baricco, published in 2008 by Canongate Books; design: Chin-Yee Lai; image: © Tom Maday/Photonica.
Joining Charles Adrian for this Advent edition of the Second Hand Book Factory is Giorgis Hadzilacos, a tall, Mediterranean hydrologist who hopes that his family won’t mind too much that he woke them up at 6am this morning. Giorgis reads to us in Ancient Greek and talks about travel, poetry in prose and the dangers of living in dark London town.
The first time Charles Adrian tried to record a conversation with Giorgis, technical problems meant that the recording was lost; this is the second attempt.
Ocean Sea by Alessandro Baricco is also discussed in Page One 158.
This episode was recorded at the Wilton Way Café for London Fields Radio.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 4th December, 2012.
Book listing:
The Odyssey by Homer
Londoners by Craig Taylor
Ocean Sea by Alessandro Baricco (trans. Alastair McEwen)
Links:
Episode transcript:
Music
[Jesus Christ The Apple Tree by Elizabeth Poston]
Jingle
You're listening... you're listening to London Fields Radio
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to Page One on London Fields Radio. This is the 14th edition of Page One. This is the 7th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm here with Giorgis Hadzilakos. So this is... this is the week of Advent that... when this goes up - this is going to go up on about the 4th of December - so that was an Advent... a traditional Advent carol, Giorgis.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Thank you for educating me Charles.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] That was Jesus Christ... Do you know... Also, apparently, it's a wassailing song.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Oh. Perfect for my theme today.
Charles Adrian
Brilliant What's... Why?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I was thinking of bringing books...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Do you know what...?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... that relate to the sea so sailors... excellent!
Charles Adrian
I was going to say: Do you know what wassailing is?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Something with a sailor, clearly.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No. [laughing] It's not.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Something with the sea? No?
Charles Adrian
It's not. No!
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Sails?
Charles Adrian
It's about... It's about fertility, actually. I should ask you what... how do you describe yourself? I forgot to do that.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Well, I think definitely the... the audience has definitely understood that something goes funny with my last name. So...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... I am Greek. So...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I'm a total Mediterrainian chap.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] And your first name.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes, it's quite weird.
Charles Adrian
Now, I want to say, by the way... by the way, I spent a long time, you know, making sure that I pronounced your name right...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
... more or less.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
I don't say that it's exactly right. You know, I say this is... this is Giorgis and... and I've been with you in places where you've then turn round and introduced yourself as George.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Just...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] What's that about?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Well, I think it's because people get so confused with... with Giorgis that they put a blank face and they forget about it all...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I see.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... and they will call me Mister or Hey You. [laughing] So I thought...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh right! I see. Okay. I see.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] So I'm trying to... to tell...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You're trying to make yourself more memorable by giving yourself a really boring name.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[laughs] Charles I hope... I hope I make myself memorable for many other reasons and not... not because of my name. [laughs] It's just a pure communication trick.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Okay. I understand. And how... And how do you describe yourself?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Sure. I think I describe myself as a tall Mediterranean that... that loves his friends.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
And hopefully his family looks at... looks at him as the one that really loves them as well. So...
Charles Adrian
I am sure they do.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes. Well, apart from the fact that I woke up my little daughter at six o'clock this morning, which means...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh no.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... I woke up my darling wife as well. So I don't think today's the best day to ask them...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... how they feel about me. But besides that, yes, I'm... I think I'm one of these, kind of, expected Mediterranean guys that has strong bonding with his family and friends...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... and don't tell my boss but I'm not a workaholic. So. I'm one of these average tall Mediterranean guys that likes his friends and family.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Good. And can I say that you also... Can I talk about your job? You work...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] Yes [indistinct].
Charles Adrian
... with water, don't you?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes, indeed. It's part of the theme in one page today. Yes, I'm... I'm a hydrologist. So, as you probably understood from the word, it has something to do with water.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes. So I speci...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I have that much Greek.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[laughs] I specialise in flood. So...
Charles Adrian
Ah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... besides our inundated feelings of exhaustion and this... this very early morning.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I specialise in...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes, I should explain. It's eight o'clock in the morning here. I know... Our listeners will be listening to this at perhaps... well, any time of the day. They... It might be the afternoon or...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
... the evening but because Giorgis has a proper job I've had to come out here for eight o'clock in the morning to talk to him. And so, if there's anything a little bit sleepy about today's program, [laughing] that's the reason.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[laughing]
Charles Adrian
Shall we... Just... Why don't... Why don't we... Why don't we actually... [laughs]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I think we should. Yes! I think we should!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's already... Let's... [laughs]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Charles! Yes, I agree. We should.
Charles Adrian
Read me... Read me some of your book... or talk about your book. You... You brought the Odyssey.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I brought the Odyssey and... and, as I said before, it is one of these books that can be interpreted in so many ways.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Aha.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It could be just a travel book that talks about island hoppers. But most importantly for me it talks about resetting your horizon, finding your values in life, balancing ethics, and... and really travelling in so many ways.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
So...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... I thought... I thought with... with your artistic license, I'll take the liberty of reading the first verse in ancient Greek.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
So that will...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Great.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... sound weird but at least it will give the... our [indistinct] friends some idea of how it would have sounded if...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah. Wonderful.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... if they were living three thousand years ago.
Charles Adrian
Brilliant.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes. So here I go:
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν:
πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω,
πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν,
ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.
ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ ὣς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ:
αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο,
νήπιοι, οἳ κατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο
ἤσθιον: αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ.
τῶν ἁμόθεν γε, θεά, θύγατερ Διός, εἰπὲ καὶ ἡμῖν.
That was the first verse of the Odyssey.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It sounds amazing.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It... Yes, it's... it is amazing because it is... it is basically the storyteller...
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... asking the the god of literature to give him the inspiration to keep on going with his story.
Charles Adrian
Aha. Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Let's... I'm going to play the... I'm going to play the first track that you suggested to me. And this is... this is... this is a track by Noire Désir, which I used to listen to when I was an English assistant down in Limoges. Have you ever been to Limoges, by any chance?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] No, tell me about it.
Charles Adrian
It's... It's a lovely place. That's all I'm going to...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] Okay.
Charles Adrian
... say about it. You should go. It's famous for porcelain. This is... This is Le Vent Nous Portera. So this continues your theme of travel and...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Weather and...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Let it flow.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Boats. Let it flow. Exactly.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] To be a boring physician, wind and water are both liquids. So they're... they're with my theme.
Charles Adrian
No, I don't think that's true, Giorgis.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
In physics...
Charles Adrian
They might be fluids.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
That's it! That's it!
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Fluids! Liquids. Fluids. Aren't they the same?
Charles Adrian
Unless... bottled air, of course. Bottled...
Giorgis and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
... bottled wind might be a... Let's just listen, shall we? And hopefully...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[speaking over] I think that's better.
Charles Adrian
... hopefully by the time this... this track finishes, we will have... [laughing] we will have got our feet on the ground...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes indeed.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... to some extent and this... this programme will flow a little bit more like I imagined it would do when I got up this morning.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Excellent, Charles. Let's try that.
Music
[Le Vent Nous Portera by Noir Désir]
Charles Adrian
So back we are here, Giorgis, in the... [laughing] in the cafe... Wilton Way Cafe - I didn't say...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
... which is where we are, ready for the second part of this show, which is my book for you. And I'm quite excited about giving this to you because this is... this is a book that was... was given to me and, as a... as a Londoner, I've... well, I found it very eye-opening and interesting and it reinforced a lot of my preconceptions about the city I live in. But it also gave me... it opened new doors. And I think, as a new London, you will benefit from reading... reading this and reading about people's experiences. It's a collection of stories about London. It's called The Days And Nights Of London Now As Told By Those Who Love It, Hate It, Live It, Left It And Long For It. That's the long title. The short title is Londoners by Craig Taylor. Shall I read... Shall I read you the first page of it?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Please! And then you'll have to tell me about the cover because it's amazing.
Charles Adrian
Okay. I'll tell... Then I'll tell you about the cover, exactly.
INTRODUCTION
I grew up in a small, seaside village in western Canada and most summers I travelled across the country to my grandmother's summer cottage on the shores of Lake Simcoe in southern Ontario. The walls were covered in classic cottage decor, including a series of felt pennants from every country my grandmother had visited during a European excursion in the early Sixties. There were newspaper clippings pinned to the wall - yellowed recipes and news items. In the back kitchen, which always smelled of turpentine, someone had tacked up an aerial photograph of London - England, not nearby London, Ontario. I spent a lot of time looking at that mysterious view. At the bottom of the poster was the famous Samuel Johnson quote I've now heard repeated, mangled and paraphrased many times: 'When a man is tired of London he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford.' I didn't understand it at the time. The view of Tower Bridge looked grey and forbidding. It begged the question: 'What kind of person ended up in London?'
Years later, that person was me. I moved to London in the middle of a petrol strike in the autumn of 2000 - a time of panic buying, political recriminations and worries about food distribution. I arrived on an overnight transatlantic flight from Toronto and emerged from Clapham Junction train station in the afternoon. The traffic was light. The sun was warm. The newspapers warned of impending disaster, riots and a return to the Seventies; as if this city could ever move back in time.
I knew no one really, but I had a contact. I was retrieved from the station by an Australian friend of mine [sic] who had just enough fuel for the journey to my new home on a short street in Brixton without us having to get out and push the car. Here we were, two colonials coasting on fumes in London at the start of a new century.
Charles Adrian
So I think that's appropriate for several reasons. One... One is that you also have come from Australia, haven't you?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Indeed.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You've dragged your family - cruelly - to this metropolis in possibly the worst season...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Indeed.
Charles Adrian
... to arrive.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
And I think that's... that's why I really like that first page because it takes out the... the quaint London view of somebody from the colonies, such as Australia or Canada -
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... you know, the Queen, Buckingham Palace, the...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... horses and all that jazz - and just puts you in the reality of a town that is really a man-eater. You know, it has...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... such a very huge momentum. You...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... You either go with it or you drown. You...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... really have to mind the gap in London in so many ways, you know.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes. I think that's true. Let's listen to your... your... the second track that you suggested. This is by a group that I've never heard of. They're called Mumm-Ra, which is the name of a 1980s cartoon, isn't it?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It is indeed, yes.
Charles Adrian
Or is it a character in a cartoon?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It's a character...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I can't remember.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... in the cartoon Thundercats, yes.
Charles Adrian
Oh! In Thundercats! Of course!
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes, it's a bad guy.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Of course!
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Ah! I'd forgotten. It's so long since I've watched Thundercats. I see. And this is called She's Got You High. It's a lovely track.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It is indeed.
Music
[She's Got You High by Mumm-Ra]
Jingle
London Fields Radio... it's London Fields Radio.
Charles Adrian
It is London Fields Radio. I'm here with Giorgis Hadzilakos. It's now... It's now coming up to quarter to nine in the morning if I'm putting on my... my Radio Four hat, which I don't own. I don't have a Radio... I'm not a Radio Four continuity announcer, much as I might like to be. We were more or less back on track for that last part, I think.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I think we're back with it, indeed. But it's... it's difficult not to when you have got such lovely company. I mean...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Ah! Giorgis, you're just... your... your flattery is... is almost too much.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Almost too blunt. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It's inundating you.
Charles Adrian
It is. It's like... It's very much like with butter, I think. I like butter - I like it very much - but if you could actually make a thumbprint in it, you... you know, you...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
You've placed too much.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... get to the point where... where... Yeah. It's too thick.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Exactly. Exactly.
Charles Adrian
Tell me about... Tell me about the book that you're going to give it to me.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It's a book that I really think you're going to love at some point in your life for sure.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
It's... It's very poetic narrative writing. It's by Alessandra Baricco...
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... one of my favourite Italian authors. And he writes in a... what he calls a creative way, so his passages are either very brief or very long...
Charles Adrian
Aha.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... and trying to just captivate a feeling. So it's... it's one of these books that... they don't... you don't read to get to somewhere. I... The parallel I try to give is...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Okay. Hmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... you know when you jump into a river or a lake or the sea just for a swim...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... in summertime, you don't do it to just cross the river or cross the ocean...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... you just do for the pleasure of it.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm. Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
So I find this book as one of these that you opened it... open it and just read it for the pleasure or for the writing... of the feelings that come, the pictures, the sounds. So it's full of those emotions.
Charles Adrian
Oh, that's great. Oh, I can't wait. What's the book called, by the way?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
The book is called Ocean Sea. And...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] [indistinct]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... it doesn't really sound perfect as well as it should. The Italian version is Oceano Mare.
Charles Adrian
[appreciative] Mmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
That's... Phonetically, it makes...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah, much nicer.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... more sense.
Charles Adrian
Yes, it does.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
But, again, continues my theme of water...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... and sea. So...
Charles Adrian
Absolutely.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Let's go for chapter one.
Charles Adrian
Go ahead.
Giorgis Hadzilados
Sand as far as the eye can see, between the last hills and the sea [sic] in the cold air of an afternoon almost past, and blessed by the wind that always blows from the north.
The beach. And the sea.
It could be perfection - an image for divine eyes - a world that happens, that is all, the mute existence of land and water, a work perfectly accomplished, truth [sic] but once again it is the redeeming grain of a man that jams the mechanism of that paradise, a trifle capable on its own of suspending all that great apparatus of inexorable truth, a mere nothing, but one planted in the sand, an imperceptible tear in the surface of that sacred icon, a miniscule exception come to the [sic] rest on the perfection of that boundless beach. From afar he would be no more than a black dot: amid nothingness, the nothing of a man and a painter's easel.
Charles Adrian
Thank you very much. Wow. So it really... Yes, it really is just an ocean of words, I feel.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
And feelings and sounds. I think sometimes it's very difficult for a book to... to bring you to a state of mind. It's...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I think it's very easy to bring you to a geographical location...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... in front of a scene that you might have experienced...
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... or an emot... emotion that is very clear and transparent, you know...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm hmm. Yes.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... rage or...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... love or anger.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
But being in a state of mind - a different state of mind - I think is very difficult...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... to be inundated it [sic]. So I... Hopefully it will travel you there.
Charles Adrian
Thank you. I... well... hope so. It's been... It's been lovely to have you here again, Giorgis. Thank you so much for... for coming back to actually record this show. Yes. And it's wonderful to have you back in London. Thank you for coming back to London...
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Thank you for having me...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over]... apart from anything else.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... and inspiring me, really, with London. Sometimes it's easy to fall into the black trap of London and so... it only takes a small push to turn around the corner, find a beautiful cafe...
Charles Adrian
Yes!
Giorgis Hadzilakos
... where at the corner of a bar there is a radio show.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[laughing] I think there are not many places here on earth that you can find that.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] There really aren't. There really aren't. And thanks to... thanks to London Fields Radio, here we have just such a place in Wilton Way in Hackney. Let's... Let's finish up today with something a little bit special. So, as I said earlier on, this... this show will go up on or around the 4th of December so even if you're listening to this sometime in... in 2013, it... you know, it was the 4th of... the 4th of December is the important date. And that happens to be Jay Z's birthday, did you know that, Giorgis?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I didn't. I don't even think I'd know who Jason is.
Charles Adrian
Jay Z?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Jay...
Charles Adrian
You don't know who Jay Z is?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
I don't know who Jay Z is.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh my. Oh my. [laughs]
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Has it to do anything with Justin Bieber?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] What do you say in... What do you say in Greek - Ehu! Ehu!? Or is that Latin?
Giorgis Hadzilakos
[laughs] I think I would fail any pub quiz night.
Charles Adrian
It doesn't have anything to do with Justin Bieber. It's... But it's his birthday.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Happy Birthday.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] December the 4th. Jay Z's birthday. And so, to finish up today, here is his mother telling us all about it. This is... This is Jay Z with December the 4th. Thank you Giorgis.
Giorgis Hadzilakos
Thank you Charles. It's been great being here.
Music
[December 4th by Jay Z]
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]