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Episode image is a detail from the cover of If Not, Winter by Anne Carson, published in 2003 by Virago Press; book design by Carole Devine Carson and Gabriele Wilson.
Content Note: poor health (coughing) - NB This episode was recorded on the 24th May, 2019, long before Covid 19 began to spread but anybody who is feeling anxious as a result of the pandemic might want to skip it.
Joining a slightly poorly Charles Adrian in Acton for the 127th Second Hand Book Factory is Mum and facilitator of creative practice Stephanie Arsoska. They talk about creativity as an act of devotion, something nasty in the woodshed and the first poet of love.
Correction: Charles Adrian misses out the all-important word “nasty” in the Stella Gibbons quotation “Something nasty in the woodshed”.
If you are interested in Anne Carson’s translations of Sappho, you can also find some of these on Twitter, tweeted out by @sapphobot. Sappho Bot posts every 2 hours and uses translations that include liftings from Anne Carson’s If Not, Winter.
The residency on Lesvos where Charles Adrian and Stephanie spent some time in the summer of 2016 was run by Duende, whose artistic director is John Britton. You can find out more about their work here.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode recorded: 14th May, 2019.
Episode released: 25th February, 2020.
Book listing:
New And Selected Poems by Mary Oliver
Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons
If Not, Winter by Anne Carson
Links:
Episode transcript:
Charles Adrian
... and then, yeah, so I'd be like: “No, I really don't need to go to the doctor.” And then I'll be, like: [coughs dramatically]
Stephanie and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
Sorry to subject you to this.
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
I should... Yeah, I should probably have said: “Don't come, Stephanie!”
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
“Don't come! Don't come near me. I've got the lurgy.” Um...
[pause]
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the 153rd Page One. This is the 127th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm Charles Adrian and my guest today, in West London, in my flat, is Stephanie Arsoska.
Jingle
You're listening to Page One, the book podcast.
Stephanie Arsoska
Hello.
Charles Adrian
Thank you so much for coming along. Um. I was just explaining that I've been... I'm recovering from quite a bad cough so my voice probably sounds a bit strange. And... Yeah, I was apologizing to Stephanie in case... in case I cough because it's a bit disturbing to watch at the moment. I've bruised my ribs or I've strained a muscle or something so it looks really upsetting.
Stephanie and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
When I do cough, I'm going to try not to do that. How are you, Stephanie?
Stephanie Arsoska
I'm really well, thank you. I'm just... I'm hot... [indistinct]
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It is warm. We recording this on a very warm day
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] It's... yeah... really beautiful day but it's a bit too much sun for my Scottish skin...
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Stephanie Arsoska
... can't handle it.
Charles Adrian
How, at this point in your life, do you describe yourself?
Stephanie Arsoska
Oh! I... I describe myself as someone who finds it really hard to describe themselves, Adrian.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Stephanie Arsoska
I find it... I always find this question really tricky. I'm many things. I'm a mum. So I have got two beautiful children and a lot of my life is about cooking and cleaning and childcare and all those exciting things. And I'm really interested, also, in how creative practice fits in around all of that and how you manage that. Workwise, I think I would probably describe myself mostly as a facilitator. I think a lot of what I do is about facilitating other people's creative practice. And sometimes that means I'm teaching and sometimes I'm directing and sometimes I might be doing a bit of writing. So it's lots of different things. I run a young ensemble of performers who are 18 to 25. So that's the main thing.
[page turning]
Charles Adrian
What is the book that you've brought that you like?
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Okay. Well, I had a... This was really interesting, actually, just the process of picking the book, because I, kind of, realised I haven't read anything that hasn't been academic in nature for about three years.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Stephanie Arsoska
And so it was a... it was a, sort of, little wake up call to me because I was, like, obviously, pretty sure that you didn't want me to bring in a book on narrative inquiry research [laughs] or anything like that. Well, I could have done. But... So all I've...
Charles Adrian
If it was... if it was...
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughing] If I'd loved it!
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yeah, exactly!
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughing] If I'd loved my narrative... I really don't love it.
Stephanie and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Stephanie Arsoska
So a lot of those books are, kind of, theory books at the moment. I realised I hadn't done a lot of reading for pleasure for a really long time. And I thought: “Oh, that's quite a... a, kind of, a call to address that.” So, in the end, what I've picked is some Mary Oliver. So, it's her New And Selected Poems.
Charles Adrian
Ah, lovely!
Stephanie Arsoska
I love her.
Charles Adrian
I don't know her work. I know her name...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Do you not? Her... Yeah. Okay. That's i...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... and I've seen odd bits and pieces that people have shared on social media.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah. Yeah, she's got some really well... like, well-known poems. She's kind of got a, sort of, greatest hits, if you like. The... you know, pieces like Wild Geese and... that are really... really...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I guess that's what I've seen.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah, that'll be the one. And, actually, one of the lovely things about the age range that I work with is they... they don't know it yet. So I get to introduce them...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes. Oh nice.
Stephanie Arsoska
... to things like that. And I love the first line of that poem, about not having to be good. I just think that's, kind of, a nice mantra for life. But she's got lots of other work and... I just... She gets criticised a little bit as a poet for being a bit simplistic, I think, in quite... She writes quite plain language. But I like the way she does that. I think she's very accessible. And she talks about language being like a door... like opening a door... or many, many doors. And I also love the way she just talks about creativity as being about just giving attention... like a, sort of... an act of devotion. And I really... That, for me... I think it's a really beautiful thing to say. And I think it relates a lot to the work that I'm trying to do, I think, in the studio as well, which is really learning how to pay attention. She writes a lot about nature and just paying attention to nature. And I just think there's something very grounding in it for me, I think. So. I'm a big... Yeah. I'm a big fan of hers, I think. I find her very life-affirming...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... as a... as a poet and that's always a good thing.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah, that's lovely.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] It's always a good thing. And I like simple things. I think there's... you know. Sometimes, like... As I say, some people are a little bit... I don't know what the word would be, but they wouldn't read her because it's not...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... you know... She's not advanced enough. But... she's fine for me. [laughs] She's good for me. So the first poem is called Rain:
1.
All afternoon it rained, then
such power came down from the clouds
on a yellow thread,
as authoritative as God is supposed to be.
When it hit the tree, her body
opened forever.
2. THE SWAMPLast night, in the rain, some of the men climbed over the barbed-wire fence of the detention center.
In the darkness they wondered if they could do it, and knew they had to try to do it.
In the darkness they climbed the wire, handful after handful of barbed wire.
Even in the darkness most of them were caught and sent back to the camp inside.
But a few are still climbing the barbed wire, or wading through the blue swamp on the other side.What does barbed wire feel like when you grip it, as though it were a loaf of bread, or a pair of shoes?
What does barbed wire feel like when you grip it, as though it were a plate and a fork, or a handful of flowers?
What does barbed wire feel like when you grip it as though it were a handle of a door, working papers, a clean sheet you want to draw over your body?
Charles Adrian
That's wonderful.
Stephanie Arsoska
So.
Charles Adrian
It does... it sounds like poetry that I could get into. I find poetry quite difficult generally...
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... but I love... I love a lot of work that just puts images next to each other and sees what happens...
Stephanie Arsoska
[affirmative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
... in the space... And I feel like she's doing that quite a lot...
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... in that first page, just putting two images next to each other. Barbed wire like a loaf of bread.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah. A plate and a fork.
Charles Adrian
A plate and a fork. Or a door, obviously.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I also love how she writes: “Some people are still climbing the barbed wire.” And they will always be, every time somebody reads the poem.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] There'll always be somebody climbing the barbed wire, yeah.
Charles Adrian
Every time you read that, they're still climbing that barbed wire.
Stephanie Arsoska
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
And you're right. Yes, they absolutely... they still are, somewhere. I think that's very powerful.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah, I really... I don't know. She... she... she does resonate with me as a... as a poet. And I don't have to work too hard...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... to read her... to read her. But she's still...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I think that's all right. There's a, kind of... I mean, you're... you're obviously from the Calvinist heartlands of Scotland.
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
There is this, kind of, feeling of: “You have to work hard at poetry, otherwise it's not worth it.”
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah! Otherwise it's not proper. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
And I get that sometimes poetry is worth working at...
Stephanie Arsoska
Mmm. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... but I also think it's fine to take a poem that speaks to you immediately.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
As long as it does speak to you, I think that's... that's...
Stephanie Arsoska
That's... Yeah, that's a good rule of thumb, isn't it.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] That's doing something.
Stephanie Arsoska
If it's speaking to you, it's speaking to you, at the end of the day. And it doesn't...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah. It's that simple, isn't it?
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah. And it can be... And simple things. I just think there's nothing wrong with very simple things.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. That's wonderful. Thank you so much. That's... Oh, I'm inspired to...
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughing] You're going to get some!
Charles Adrian
... get myself some Mary Oliver now.
[page turning]
Charles Adrian
So the book that I've got for you...
Stephanie Arsoska
I'm so excited!
Charles Adrian
... which... I said before we started recording, I hope that you were... you were not given this at school as a set text...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] In Calvinist Scotland [laughs].
Charles Adrian
... because I think some people probably were. But yes, it's not a Scottish author.
Stephanie Arsoska
Okay. Yeah. We probably didn't get it then.
Stephanie and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
This is Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons. Have you ever read this?
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] No. No, I have not read it.
Charles Adrian
I loved this book. I actually don't remember the plot very well...
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... but I remember... I remember how much I enjoyed it when I read it. It's... It was written in the thirties... if I can find out what year it was published... 1932, it was published. And Stella Gibbons, who had been a journalist... in fact, she says that in her introductory letter. She writes to… She writes the foreword to Anthony Pookworthy, Esq, who doesn't exist, but he's a kind of representative of the kind of writer she's lampooning in Cold Comfort Farm. She thinks... She thinks, I think, a lot of the writing that was around then is ridiculous. So this novel is full of these mysterious, bad-tempered... yeah lugubrious people who live in the country and make a mystery of everything. They have wonderful biblical names like Ruben and Seth...
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
...and Judith and Adam and Amos. And what happens is that Flora Poste, who they always refer to as Robert Poste's child, because she's the cousin...
Stephanie Arsoska
[affirmative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
...and I think Robert Poste must have been her father... Flora Poste loses her parents, as you'll find out in the first page, and eventually goes to live with her cousins on Cold Comfort Farm...
Stephanie Arsoska
[affirmative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
...and essentially makes it all spick and span. She just... she blows out the cobwebs and she refuses to accept that there is any great mystery happening. And Cold Comfort Farm is also the first time that “something in the woodshed” is mentioned. Aunt Ada, apparently, has seen something in the woodshed and has never been the same since.
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] We don't know what...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] What was in the woodshed [laughs].
Charles Adrian
... was in the woodshed but that... that phrase has, kind of, entered the language. It's just... it's a lot of fun. Oh, and the other thing that she does, which she explains in her foreword is that, when she's written a paragraph that she particularly likes, she gives it either one, two or three stars depending on how she... how good she thinks it is...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Oh! That's amazing.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... which is so wonderful.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] As she goes along? Oh that's so brilliant. I love that.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] As she goes along. So, for example at the beginning of chapter two...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] She's got her own feedback framework. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Exactly. There's a two-star chapter... a two-star... there's a two-star paragraph. It goes...
Dawn crept over the Downs like a sinister white animal, followed by the snarling cries of a wind eating its way between the black boughs of the thorns. The wind was the furious voice of this sluggish animal light that was baring the dormers and mullions and scullions of Cold Comfort Farm.
That's two stars.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] That's two stars. [laughs] Does she have one-star photographs?
Charles Adrian
Yeah, she has... I can't see any right now. But yes, she has one or two one-star...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] That's brilliant...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... one-star paragraphs...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] She was like: “That's fine.”
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... she has some three-star paragraphs.
Stephanie Arsoska
Oh that's brilliant!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's so much fun.
Stephanie Arsoska
That's brilliant. It's almost like I've... she's, sort of, done some things like: “Oh, it's only worth one stars but you... you're getting it anyway.”
Charles Adrian
Yeah, exactly!
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
It's still better than all of the other paragraphs...
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughing] ... graphs, yeah.
Charles Adrian
... it's just not the best of the best.
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughing] ... best, yeah.
Charles Adrian
She takes it, apparently, from Baedeker, which is... Baedeker are these travel guides that... In...
Stephanie Arsoska
Okay.
Charles Adrian
... A Room With A View they use Baedeker.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Or, no, maybe in Room With A View... maybe that character criticises, but I think... Yes, she doesn't like Baedeker because everybody uses Baedeker. It's a bit like the... you know, the equivalent of the Rough Guide or something.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
And I think Baedeker did that for the different sites. Like, a three-star site would be more worth seeing than a one-star site, maybe. So here's chapter one... the beginning of chapter one.
THE education bestowed on Flora Poste by her parents had been expensive, athletic and prolonged; and when they died within a few weeks of one another during the annual epidemic of the influenza or Spanish plague which occurred in her twentieth year, she was discovered to possess every art and grace save that of earning her own living.
Her father had always been spoken of as a wealthy man, but on his death his executors were disconcerted to find him a poor one. After death duties had been paid and the demands of creditors satisfied, his child was left with an income of one hundred pounds a year, and no property.
Flora inherited, however, from her father a strong will and from her mother a slender ankle. The one had not been impaired by always having her own way nor the other by the violent athletic sports in which she been compelled to take part, but she realised that neither was adequate as an equipment for earning her keep.
She decided, therefore, to stay with a friend, a Mrs Smiling, at her house in Lamberth until she could decide where to bestow herself and her hundred pounds a year.
The death of her parents did not cause Flora much grief, for she had barely known them. They were addicted to travel, and spend only a month or so of each year in England. Flora, from her tenth year, had passed her school holidays at the house of Mrs Smiling's mother; and when Mrs Smiling married, Flora spent them at her friend's house instead. It was therefore with the feelings of one who returns home that she entered the precincts of Lambeth upon a gloomy afternoon in February, a fortnight after her father's funeral.
Mrs Smiling was fortunate in that she had inherited house property in Lambeth before the rents in that district soared to ludicrous heights following the tide of fashion as it swung away from Mayfair to the other side of the river, and the...
There you go.
Stephanie Arsoska
[appreciatively] Mmm. It's a good start. You know, the thing about starting with an orphan...
Charles Adrian
Yes. All is possible.
Stephanie Arsoska
All is... Yeah, the orphan child and...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Not only an orphan child, an orphan child completely unencumbered with any kind of emotional baggage.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] No, she just doesn't care. She's got a slender ankle she'll be fine.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] She's got...
Stephanie and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
[page turning]
Charles Adrian
So what's the book that you think I should have?
Stephanie Arsoska
I feel like it might be the kind of book you already have, Adrian, but... So here you go. So...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Always a chance!
Stephanie Arsoska
[laughs] I've got Anne Carson.
Charles Adrian
No. I don't think I've even heard of Anne Carson.
Stephanie Arsoska
Do you not have it? If Not, Winter. Well, you don't have it...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Then I'll feel a bit extra pleased. Okay, so I've got...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's very pretty.
Stephanie Arsoska
It's really pretty, isn't it. I bought your a new one because I need to keep mine...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm. I understand.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] ... so it's a new shiny copy. So... Yes, this is If Not, Winter by... which is Anne Carson's translation of the work of Sappho.
Charles Adrian
Ah. Interesting.
Stephanie Arsoska
I chose it for about three reasons. This is the text that we're working on in the ensemble just now.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
So this is, kind of, creatively, what we're doing. So I thought that was quite a, kind of, nice thing to give to you.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm. Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
This is, sort of, the work that we're doing. And we've been working on it for about a year now. And we're hoping to be working on it for a long time. I had a desire to work on a project for a really long time. And, particularly with the age range that I work with, there's a tendency to... I don't know, you might work on something for a year and then it's on to the next thing. And it just... you, kind of, don't spend a long time on anything. And I just, sort of, wanted to know what would happen if I didn't do that...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... and I just stayed with something until I was really sick of it. And then what was on the other side of that? And it was also a little bit impossible because, you know, I lose young people every year... they go off to drama school or to, you know...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Right. Right.
Stephanie Arsoska
... further... into further... further education because I tend to get them... I don't know what the equivalent would be down here... So I'm, sort of, HND, HNC level. So college basically...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Right. Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
... and then they go on to, you know, the higher education. So every year I lose a couple. So... And then new ones come in. So how do you work on a three-, four-year project when it's...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Stephanie Arsoska
... [laughing] all these things are moving around.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Stephanie Arsoska
You can't really do it, which is why I wanted to do it. So that was one reason: it's what we're working on at the moment. I think it's... I just think it's a beautiful translation of her work as well that she's done. She's... it's a very minimalist translation. And I looked at a few different translations of Sappho and they range from what Anne Carson's done, which is very little... She, sort of, talks in her introduction about really trying to get out of the way. And she says: “The more I get out of the way, the more the Sappho is allowed to emerge.” And, if you look at it, you can see that she, sort of... there's lots of space. So it's just... so there's... these are fragments and...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh. Oh, but these are... You can...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah... just little bits of the poem.
Charles Adrian
Because I've seen... There's a Sappho bot on Twitter that tweets out fragments of Sappho and it's very similar...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Ah. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... with the square paragraphs. Well, square... square...
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Mmm hmm. A Sappho bot! I'll have to look that up. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah. Square brackets, sorry.
Stephanie Arsoska
So, some of them are a lot more... There's more...
Charles Adrian
With just fragments.
Stephanie Arsoska
Yeah, just bits of it. So some people have taken this and they've, like, filled in the gaps. Like, quite extensively. And given things title... and just, like, rewritten it.
Charles Adrian
[Musing] Mmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
And she just hasn't done that. She's just... just looked at what was there and she is try... I think, trying to give us that sense of what it would be like to be working with, you know, the actual papyrus, I guess...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Stephanie Arsoska
... and that has all these holes in it...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
... and trying to piece it together. And... So, we picked it partly because we loved her... the words but also all the space between...
Charles Adrian
[appreciative] Mmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... and there was something just really enticing about all that empty space that's there. And so that was the second reason. And then the third one was she was writing on Lesvos.
Charles Adrian
No!
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Actually yeah!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh, of course Sappho was! Yes, yes. Right. Of course. Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. And that's...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Famously!
Stephanie Arsoska
That's the last time I saw you was there. So...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] That's right. We were in Lesvos together.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] We were in Lesvos together. So I thought it was like a... just a nice little...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh no, that's perfect.
Stephanie Arsoska
... connection!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh how weird! I can't believe that didn't occur to me straight away.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah. Yeah!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes, of course.
Stephanie Arsoska
So, actually, last time... I went there last year and I took her with me just to read it...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh how lovely.
Stephanie Arsoska
... on the island where she was... where it was written. So I just thought there was lots of... I felt like there was lots of reasons to give it to you. So I hope you like it.
Charles Adrian
I'm sure I will. What are you going to read from it?
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] So I'm going to read the first page. So, the first page is actually the most complete poem that is in the book...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
... although you're not going to get all of it. So...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Fine.
Stephanie Arsoska
... there's... it's... it's... the complete... a complete fragment.
Deathless Aphrodite of the spangled mind,
child of Zeus, who twists lures, I beg you
do not break with hard pains,
O lady, my heartbut come here if ever before
you caught my voice far off
and listening left your father's
golden house and came,yoking your car. And fine birds brought you,
quick sparrows over the black earth
whipping their wings down the sky
through midair-they arrived. But you, O blessed one,
smiled in your deathless face
and asked what (now again) I have suffered and why
(now again) I am calling outand what I want to happen most of all
in my crazy heart. Whom should I persuade (now again)
to lead you back into her love? Who, O
Sappho, is wronging you?
Charles Adrian
[appreciative] Mmm.
Stephanie Arsoska
That's the end of that. And she was, sort of, like, the first person to write... Well, she's the first, kind of, recorded female poet in, sort of, the West... and also the first to, kind of, write about the personal...
Charles Adrian
Ah right. Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
... feelings. So she's, like, kind of... The originator of the love poem...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Stephanie Arsoska
... is Sappho.
Charles Adrian
Aha. Yes.
Stephanie Arsoska
So. Yeah. I just find it really... really interesting. So...
Charles Adrian
Oh. Thank you so much.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] There you go!
Charles Adrian
I think I'm going to really love dipping into that. Thank you so much for doing this with me, Stephanie.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Oh, thank you for having me.
Charles Adrian
It's been such a pleasure.
Stephanie Arsoska
[speaking over] Yeah. I'm glad we did it.
Charles Adrian
Me too! Me too.
Jingle
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[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]