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(Background noise might make this episode a challenging listen.)
Episode image is a detail from the cover of Toby Alone by Timothée de Fombelle, published in 2008 by Walker Books; jacket illustration by François Place.
Travelling all the way from Graz in Austria to join Charles Adrian this week is performer and creator Christina Scheutz. With only the scarcest of resources to hand, they discuss trees and ravens, uncertain endings and words that are as unobtainable as Cadillacs. Christina brings music made by friends of hers and Charles Adrian gives a nod to a certain recently re-elected, if poorly, American president.
The last time Christina was in London, she and Charles Adrian made a film about Swing Dancing in the city, which you can find here.
Krabat by Ottfried Preußler and Although Of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself by David Lipsky are also discussed in Page One 160.
Books by David Foster Wallace are discussed in Page One 51 and Page One 169 (Brief Interviews With Hideous Men), and Page One 71 (This Is Water).
Also mentioned in this episode are the Tales Of The Otori books by Lian Hearn, which you can read about on Wikipedia here.
This episode was recorded at the Wilton Way Café for London Fields Radio.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 22nd January, 2013.
Book listing:
Krabat by Ottfried Preußler
Toby Alone by Timothée de Fombelle (trans. Sarah Ardizzone)
Although Of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself by David Lipsky
Links:
Episode transcript:
Jingle
You're listening... you're listening to London Fields Radio.
Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the 19th edition of Page One on London Fields Radio. This is the... sorry... This is the 12th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm here with Christina Scheutz from Austria. We're going to start with a... We're going to start with a track that we both agreed on. We discussed the music last night because Christina is staying with me. And we... yeah, we thought this would be a good one to start with. This is Elton John featuring George Michael. This is Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me.
Music
[Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me by George Michael and Elton John]
Charles Adrian
So that was Don't Let The Sun Go Down On Me by Elton John featuring George Michael but I think it should be by George Michael featuring Mr Elton John. Surely. Anyway. I always imagine... I always imagined George Michael saying: “Ladies and gentlemen Mr Charles Adrian!”. Woooooo!
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
Christina. Hello.
Christina Scheutz
Hello.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] I'm enjoying your jumper, which the listeners won't see.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
Which... Is it homemade?
Christina Scheutz
No but it... I paid some money that it should look like homemade.
Charles Adrian
Wow. Who did you pay?
Christina Scheutz
C & A. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
So Christina... Christina Scheutz from Gratz.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
How would you describe yourself?
Christina Scheutz
I would describe myself... If I were a tree, I would be a... a cedar [/sedɜːr/].
Charles Adrian
A... A cedar [/siːdə/].
Christina Scheutz
A cedar [/siːdə/].
Charles Adrian
Ah. Okay. So Christina Scheutz comma cedar tree.
Christina Scheutz
[laughing] Yes.
Charles Adrian
Why?
Christina Scheutz
[laughs] Because cedars are so serious.
Charles Adrian
Okay. Cool. I... Okay. I accept that.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] And... And you can sleep very well if you have a room made out of cedar wood.
Charles Adrian
Ah. Because of the smell?
Christina Scheutz
Yes. I have a pillow...
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Christina Scheutz
... which is filled with cedar wood.
Charles Adrian
Really? And it works, does it?
Christina Scheutz
It works.
Charles Adrian
Oh. Actually that d... that sounds quite nice. So you're describing yourself as someone who would lull people to sleep?
Christina Scheutz
Yes. Where people feel so cozy...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
... that they can sleep a very healthy sleep.
Charles Adrian
[appreciative] Mmm. I can imagine that actually.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yeah.
Charles Adrian
I can imagine that. What... Yeah, now I should confess at this point that I prepared you badly. And not only did I prepare you badly for this show, I accused you of not paying attention to my instructions...
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... which it turned out I hadn't sent.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
So you, Christina, you've turned up without any books.
Christina Scheutz
That's correct.
Charles Adrian
All the way from [laughing] Austria.
Christina Scheutz
[laughing] Yes.
Charles Adrian
I'm sorry about that. I can only... I can only apologise.
Christina Scheutz
Okay, accepted.
Charles Adrian
But in... So, in the absence of actual books we can talk about pretend books. We can talk about virtual books.
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
We can talk about books that you would have brought...
Christina Scheutz
Of course.
Charles Adrian
... had I actually asked you to bring some books. What book would you have brought that you like?
Christina Scheutz
I would have brought Krabat.
Charles Adrian
Oh! Right!
Christina Scheutz
Do you know it?
Charles Adrian
Don't I have it on my shelf? Did you look?
Christina Scheutz
I didn't look. Oh no! I didn't look. What a shame!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah, I think I have it. I think I have it because you recommended it to me last time you were here...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yes!
Charles Adrian
... and I bought it and I remember you saying to me...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Oh yes!
Charles Adrian
... “Ooo, are you sure you want that in German?” And I said: “Yeah, absolutely.” And I haven't read it.
Christina Scheutz
Oh! Oh no! See, because you said I shouldn't tell you which books I want.
Charles Adrian
I know! It was my mistake. [laughing] It was totally my mistake.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs] Again!
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Let's talk about Krabat anyway. I haven't read it yet so...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yeah! Good.
Charles Adrian
... tell me... tell me what happens or what... why do you like it so much? That's the ma... That's the main question.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] I love it so much. It's... It's... By the way, it's by Ottfried Preußler...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
... who is a German writer.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Christina Scheutz
And it...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Preußler is such a great word.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah. What?
Charles Adrian
Preußler. It's such a great word.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm. And it's a children's book but really I find that you can read it at any age.
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Christina Scheutz
And I love it so much because it's so... [in German] spannend?
Charles Adrian
[translating] Exciting.
Christina Scheutz
It's so exciting and you have this main character who I truly love and he's a boy of about 11 years old. He's an orphan...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm. Okay.
Christina Scheutz
... because... and he... or he has to leave home or something. I don't... I don't remember. But he's without parents and...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm hmm.
Christina Scheutz
... and it's... it's winter and it's in years in Germany when there... you know, between the wars when there was really, you know, nothing.
Charles Adrian
Yes.
Christina Scheutz
.... and... and he finds this mill and there he... he's accepted as a student... mill student.
Charles Adrian
Okay. Yeah. Like a... an apprentice.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah. And there are... there are thirteen guys of all ages...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Right.
Christina Scheutz
... and they are all students - mill worker and students. And you have the master...
Charles Adrian
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Christina Scheutz
... who is a master of dark science...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh! Okay.
Christina Scheutz
... but he's also the boss of the mill.
Charles Adrian
Right.
Christina Scheutz
And during his first year there he only can sense that there are things going on, you know, that have...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
... nothing to do with the mill.
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
So. And you see his years of growing there...
Charles Adrian
Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
... which means also his years of knowing more and more about this dark science.
Charles Adrian
[appreciative] Mmm.
Christina Scheutz
And then in the end, like, it's either him or the master something until he...
Charles Adrian
Right.
Christina Scheutz
Oh, it's so... so beautiful. I could connect so much to it.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh that sounds really exciting. Yeah.
Christina Scheutz
Like, I...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm.
Christina Scheutz
... I think I had years like that in a kind of mill. With dark science.
Christina and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
Wow. That... That just... I'm... I will be dreaming about that this evening I think.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yeah.
Charles Adrian
That sounds so exciting. Now we... In English, the word “krabat”...
Christina Scheutz
[interested] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
... it sounds really... there's something very ugly, very, kind of, toad-like about that sound. It sounds like the noise a toad or a frog would make. Does it have that kind of...
Christina Scheutz
Yes!
Charles Adrian
... kind of, feeling in German for you?
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Oh! Uh... “Krabat”... “Krabat”... Yeah. “Krabat”... Oh, and you know... and also “krabat” is... They turn into... into ravens in... into the night... in the night.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Ah, I see. So there's a kind of raven sound.
Christina Scheutz
Yes. So I think, now that you say that...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm.
Christina Scheutz
I never thought about it but now that you say that, I thought...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes.
Christina Scheutz
... I thought: “Yes, it's true. It's a kind of raven sound, isn't it?”
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Right. Yeah, it could be. It could be also...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] [making it sound like a raven caw] Krabat! Krabat!
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Let's play... Let's play a song. So this is one that I've chosen but I've chosen it because you first suggested it to me. And this is... So this is by Sophie Hunger [/hʊŋɜː/]...
Christina Scheutz
[appreciative] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
...I assume her name is pronounced.
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
And this is another wonderful Germanic word. It's Dret [/dχet/]
Christina Scheutz
Dret [/dReɪt/]. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Dret [/dχeɪt/]. What does that mean?
Christina Scheutz
It's Swiss... It is Swiss so I... I'm not sure what it means. Because...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Okay.
Christina Scheutz
‘Dret’... I can't tell you.
Charles Adrian
Okay.
Christina Scheutz
For me it's like a foreign [laughing] language.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] So she sings in... she sings in Swiss German on this, doesn't she.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yes. She... Yes.
Charles Adrian
It's beautiful. I love... I love her voice. I think it's really nice.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] [affirmative] Mmm hmm. I love her and I think she's a great performer. You should go and watch her.
Charles Adrian
I will try.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I will try. So this is Sophie Hunger with Dret.
Music
[Dret by Sophie Hunger]
Charles Adrian
That was Sophie Hunger with... with Dret. So now... The... the second part of the show is... is where I give you the book that I think you should have. It... it's also a children's book.
Christina Scheutz
Great!
Charles Adrian
But it's... it... I... I read it as an adult. It was given to me by a friend of mine and I really enjoyed it. It's... It's quite fun. It's one of these... It's a... It's a book that takes a small thing and makes it... and makes it big. You know...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
... it's a small place which is very big and it's a... you know, it becomes an adventure. It's set in a tree...
Christina Scheutz
Really?
Charles Adrian
... and it's about these very, very small people who live in the tree.
Christina Scheutz
Oh!
Charles Adrian
And it's really about... it's about how we abuse our planet. That's the... That's the, kind of, underlying story.
Christina Scheutz
I think you have shown me that book once. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
Ah yeah, it's possible.
Christina and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Charles Adrian
I don't remember now.
Christina Scheutz
Or recommended it to me.
Charles Adrian
Maybe I recommended it to you.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Yeah yeah.
Charles Adrian
And I think since... So you came to stay two years ago...
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
... and since then I often think to myself: “Oh, do you know, I should send Christina a copy of this book.”
Christina Scheutz
Oh, how lovely!
Charles Adrian
And I haven't done it.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
But since you were coming, I thought: “Well, okay. I'll just... I'll just give you a copy of this book.” It's called Toby Alone and it's by...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Oh yeah yeah.
Charles Adrian
... Timothée de Fombelle, who is a French writer.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
Apparently a man although the word Timothée is spelled with two e's. So I find that...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Mmm.
Charles Adrian
... I always assumed it was a woman. But then I always make that mistake with books...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
... if it's a... if it's a name that I don't know. I mean, I remember we... so you and I talking a lot about the Tales Of The Otori...
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... by... by Lian Hearn.
Christina Scheutz
It has changed my life, this book.
Charles Adrian
Has it? In good ways?
Christina Scheutz
In good ways. Very good way... Because I also [laughing] identified with this...
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Christina Scheutz
... boy.
Charles Adrian
Do you think maybe you identify with the heroes of all children's books?
Christina Scheutz
No, definitely not.
Charles Adrian
Are there books that you don't identify with?
Christina Scheutz
I think so.
Charles Adrian
I'm a bit worried about giving you something that you're going to... you're going to internalise too much...
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... because it might... You know, it's about... it's about a really tragic...
Christina Scheutz
Ah...
Charles Adrian
... set of situations. There's also... There's a second book after this.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
But this book definitely ends in a lot of... a lot of... a lot of uncertainty and...
Christina Scheutz
Oh no!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... and sadness.
Christina Scheutz
Do you know that when I was a child and books ended not happily but in uncertainty...
Charles Adrian
Yeah?
Christina Scheutz
I would write down the last... like, on the last page, I would write down: “But then he... he would find this and then... and then they would... and then everything would be solved.”
Charles Adrian
Ah that's...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Because I just couldn't bear it...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] ... that's lovely.
Christina Scheutz
... the uncertainty.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah. Yeah. You might end up doing that with this book.
Christina Scheutz
Okay.
Charles Adrian
See how you... See how you go.
1
Tracked Down
Toby was just one and a half millimeters tall, not exactly big for a boy of his age. Only his toes were sticking out of the hole in the bark where he was hiding.
Looking up through the enormous russet-coloured leaves to the starry sky above, Toby felt there had never been a night as dark and shiny as this one. When there's no moon, the stars dance more brightly. Even if there were a sky in heaven, he told himself, it couldn't possibly be as deep or as magical as this.
Toby began to calm down. Lying with his head resting on the moss, he could feel his hair wet with cold tears. He was tucked inside a hole in the black bark. His leg was injured, he had cuts on both shoulders and his hair was matted with blood. His hands were stinging from being ripped by thorns, but the rest of his tiny body was numb with pain and exhaustion.
Yeah, I can already see by your face. It's painful, isn't it, the beginning.
Christina Scheutz
It is.
Charles Adrian
It's sad and it's... and it's painful and it's difficult.
Christina Scheutz
But it's also... I can imagine it very well, you know?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah. It's very vivid, isn't it?
Christina Scheutz
It is vivid.
Charles Adrian
There you go. I'm giving that to you.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Oh! Thank you so much!
Charles Adrian
I hope you... I hope you enjoy it. Let's listen to... Let's listen to the second track that you've brought, as it were. Your... Your... The Elton John track at the beginning was your suggestion and this is your second suggestion. And this is by... this is by some friends of yours.
Christina Scheutz
Yes. And their band is called L & Speiche. And the bandleader is really my friend. She's called Laura Win... Winkler. She's an amazing singer and lives in Berlin. And their track is called Disappear Me.
Music
[Disappear Me by L & Speiche]
Jingle
London Fields Radio... it's London Fields Radio.
Charles Adrian
Hello. It is. It's London Fields Radio. This is Charles Adrian at the Wilton Way Cafe for Page One. This is the Second Hand Book Factory. I've just given Christina the book that now becomes our only second hand book, sadly, at this... at this episode through my... What's the word I'm looking for?
Christina Scheutz
Pleasure?
Charles Adrian
It's gone. No. Yeah, so you - yeah, we've just been talking a little bit - you didn't actually believe that I was going to give you that book.
Christina Scheutz
No I thought it was all made up and I had to pretend to be happy or something.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] That would have been so cruel.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[indistinct] jerked it straight back on the secret string that I was holding in my hand.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs] Yes. I wondered why you really gave it into my hands. I was like: “It's only radio, Adrian. We can just...
Charles Adrian
[laughs] We could just pretend.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] ... say the words.”
Charles Adrian
And... Yeah, well let's do that. Let's... Let's... Why did we... Why did we even... Why were we even honest about your book situation? What... What book have you brought today, Christina - and I'm nodding and raising my eyebrows...
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
... to give to me really today over the...
Christina Scheutz
Well, Adrian, I brought from all... all the way on Ryanair flight [laughing] from Austria to here, I brought this book, this big and heavy book which is called Although You End Up Becoming Yourself. And it's written by a journalist...
Charles Adrian
Aha.
Christina Scheutz
... about David Foster Wallace. Oh, you know where I found this book last...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yeah?
Christina Scheutz
When I was here two years ago in London...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Really?
Christina Scheutz
... I went into a bookshop and there I saw that and it just sprang into my eyes. And I had never heard about David Foster Wallace...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Mmm.
Christina Scheutz
... I had never read something about him. But I just read this book about him and his writing, which is weird.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh. Very weird. And now it's coming home, this book.
Christina Scheutz
And it is coming home.
Charles Adrian
I won't ask you to read the first page because I can see that it is a very difficult book...
Christina Scheutz
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
... to read.
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
It's a very translucent book.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
Almost invisible.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
You would need very good eyesight.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
So... But we'll just enjoy the thought of it.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah, and you can read it then in two hours when you're at home.
Charles Adrian
Exactly. Exactly. I'll do that.
Christina Scheutz
[affirmative] Mmm hmm.
Charles Adrian
I'll do that.
Christina Scheutz
Or even on the train.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. I mean, there are so many...
Christina Scheutz
Possibilities.
Charles Adrian
... so many... Yeah. Christina, it's been so lovely to have you on my radio show.
Christina Scheutz
It's my pleasure. Really. I love it here.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] This is... Oh, thank you! Well, I... Yeah, I shouldn't say thank you because I think you mean the cafe and the... generally the... everywhere.
Christina Scheutz
Everything.
Charles Adrian
Everything about this part of London.
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
It's been a... It's a rather grisly day outside and so it has been...
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] It is.
Charles Adrian
... lovely to sit in the corner of The Wilton Way Cafe and talk to you about books and other things.
Christina Scheutz
Yes.
Charles Adrian
I'm going to finish with something that has nothing to do with either of us. This is... This is what you might call the... Oh, do you know, words are just flying out of my mind. Just as I... Just as I reach for them, they... they disappear.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] If this word were a car which kind of car would it be?
Charles Adrian
[laughs] It would be the kind of car that you cannot afford
Christina Scheutz
[laughs] A Cadillac.
Charles Adrian
It might be.
Christina Scheutz
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
So this is the Cadillac section of the show. 'Topical' is the word I wanted.
Christina Scheutz
Yeah.
Charles Adrian
This is the topical corner. This week in the United States of America Barack Obama was inaugurated for the second time. I think that's the phrase you use.
Christina Scheutz
[speaking over] Woo hoo.
Charles Adrian
I don't... I don't know if you say re-aug... re-inaugurated or re... I don't know. Anyway. He's... He's back in... He's back in the White House. But... But Barack Obama is not the only American president to have been re-elected recently. This is called Hugo and it's by Urusen.
Music
[Hugo by Urusen]
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]