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Season 1 Episodes

Sleepily, from the comfort of his own home, Charles Adrian brings you this week’s Page One – the 27th Second Hand Book Factory – with dancer, choreographer, teacher, improviser, performer and artistic director Gabriele Wappel. They ask questions, revisit a classic and explore Renaissance Italy. Gabriele, directly and indirectly, supplied all of the music for this week’s show and it is wonderful.

The workshop they were doing on the weekend of recording was led by the then artistic director of a company called Duende.

Fragenbogen by Max Frisch and Brunelleschi’s Dome by Ross King are also discussed in Page One 166.

This episode was recorded in Acton for London Fields Radio.

This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.

A transcript of this episode is below.

Episode released: 18th June, 2013.

Book listing: 

Fragebogen by Max Frisch

Catcher In The Rye by J. D. Salinger

Brunelleschi’s Dome by Ross King

Links:

Duende

Page One 166

Charles Adrian

Episode transcript:

Jingle
You're listening... you're listening... to London Fields Radio.

Charles Adrian
Hello and welcome to the 40th Page One. This is the 27th Second Hand Book Factory. I'm Charles Adrian, recording this for London Fields Radio. But this is... this is Page One On The Run and I'm with Gabriele Wappel [/væpeˈl/] - is that right?

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah, that's right.

Charles Adrian
You say that in a way that makes me think it wasn't quite right.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] Wappel [/væˈpˌl/]. Yeah, I would say it in a different... [laughs]

Charles Adrian
[laughs]

Gabriele Wappel
Well, it's Wappel [/væˈpˌl/].

Charles Adrian
Wappel [/væˈpˌl/]. Okay. Oh, that sounds even better. Gabriele Wappel. I like that. And we've just had a wonderful weekend workshopping with John Britton at the London Buddhist Arts Center. So we're sitting in my kitchen now digesting the workshop and digesting our supper, eating...

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] Chocolate.

Charles Adrian
... a little bit of chocolate, [laughing] yeah. Drinking some nettle tea. And I'm going to start with a song that you gave me, Gabi, when I stayed with you a couple of weeks ago in Vienna, which I really... I was so happy that you gave me this. This is What A Feeling by Irene... Cara - is that right? Irene Cara?

Gabriele Wappel
Yes.

Charles Adrian
I never knew what she was called. So this is What A Feeling by Irene Cara. Fans of Flashdance may well recognise this.

Music
[What A Feeling by Irene Cara]

Charles Adrian
So that was What A Feeling by Irene Cara. And I now... So I'm here... Hello Gabi. We're here in my kitchen. It's quite difficult to do this podcast in my kitchen because it's... obviously, this is a space where I just, you know...

Gabriele Wappel
Feel at home.

Charles Adrian
... feel at home. Exactly! And we have spent a lot of time talking here so it's quite difficult for me to marshal my thoughts properly. Gabriele Wappel: how do you describe yourself? That's how I'm... I think that's how we're going to do it. I'm just going to [makes popping sound] push through.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] I think today I found out I'm the woman with the blue bag, sitting in a bus, almost touching the trees. I think it's hilarious. [laughs] And I want to sit in the front row, on the first... like, the first place, you know? In front.

Charles Adrian
Which is what I do as well, yeah.

Gabriele Wappel
Front row, up. So. That's who I am today.

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh wonderful. Okay, that's who you are. Lovely. I like that idea. And you get all those signs... or sometimes you get signs saying, “Caution! Low trees” and I always think...

Gabriele Wappel
[laughing] What should I...?

Charles Adrian
[laughing] Yeah, what should I do?

Gabriele Wappel
They're just for the bus, they're not... [laughing] they're not for you. [laughs]

Charles Adrian
I know but...

Gabriele Wappel
But the bus can't read.

Charles Adrian
… the bus can't do anything either. But yeah, I like that. Okay. Gabriele Wappel: front seat of the bus. Top deck, front seat.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] It's the top... top level, yeah.

Charles Adrian
Great. I think we should just move straight on to the book that you like...

Gabriele Wappel
The book I like...

Charles Adrian
... because I really... I really want to find out about this.

Gabriele Wappel
... is written by Max Frisch, who's a Swiss author, and it's called Fragebogen. And I will just read the first page now.

Charles Adrian
Great. Great. Okay.

Gabriele Wappel
Straightaway.

1. [said in English, but the remaining numbers are said in German]...

“Eins”, auf deutsch.

Sind Sie sicher, daß Sie die Erhaltung des Menschengeschlechts, wenn Sie und alle Ihre Bekannten nicht mehr sind, wirklich interessiert?
2.
Warum? Stichworte genügen.
3.
Wie viele Kinder von Ihnen sind nicht zur Welt gekommen durch Ihren Willen?
4.
Wem wâren Sie lieber nie begegnet?
5.
Wissen Sie sich einer Person gegenüber, die nicht davon zu wissen braucht, Ihrerseits im Unrecht und hassen Sie eher sich selbst oder die Person dafür?
6.
Möchten Sie das absolute Gedächtnis?
7.
Wie heißt die Politiker, dessen Tod durch Krankheit, Verkehrsunfall usw. Sie mit Hoffnung erfüllen könnte? Oder halten Sie keinen für unersetzbar?

Charles Adrian
Wow, that's beautiful. You read it very well, Gabi. Your accent is beautiful...

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] I didn't rehearse. While I was reading [I was thinking], “Maybe I should have rehearsed”.

Gabriele and Charles Adrian
[laughter]

Gabriele Wappel
But actually, yeah.

Charles Adrian
You're a natural.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah.

Charles Adrian
It rings a bell. I feel like I might have seen a piece of theatre that was based on this.

Gabriele Wappel
Really?

Charles Adrian
I don't know. It just rings a bell. I'm sure I've seen people who've been inspired by this.

Gabriele Wappel
Yes, I think...

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Because I think I've heard of it.

Gabriele Wappel
... for me, it's really inspiring. So... [indistinct]

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I didn't understand all of the questions. I will just say that now.

Gabriele Wappel
It's fine.

Charles Adrian
But I like it. And so are they all... is it all questions?

Gabriele Wappel
It's all... all questions. It's all collected questions. So there's, like, a collection. This is... Fragebogen... I don't know what... ‘Questionnaire’ en français.

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Ah, questionnaire. Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah.

Gabriele Wappel
So it's always related to one topic. And there are, like, eleven different topics in this book.

Charles Adrian
I see. So it's really... it, kind of, guides your... your thoughts a little bit... for a few pages and then...

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah. For a few pages. I mean, they're questions that are variating [sic]. Some... There are some that you don't, like, expect but there are expected questions.

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So is it, like... is it a book that you can just read through? Because it's quite a small book. Can you just read it in an afternoon? Or do you need to take several... Like, do you need to come and read it and then go away and come back?

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] I mean, I think you could, but it's, like... the interesting thing for me is just to open it and read, like, three questions and then think about it. And then maybe leave it for years and read it again and think about it again.

Charles Adrian
Nice. Yeah. I like that.

Gabriele Wappel
And that's what I like. So it's really a book you make up yourself actually.

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Beautiful. And then you could actually publish a... your own version... your own edition of this book with... with the answers in the back.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah, you could do...

Charles Adrian
One day.

Gabriele Wappel
... you could do this over the years maybe.

Charles Adrian
or write them down in the book.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah!

Charles Adrian
That would be so cool. And then you could put... you could give it away to a charity shop or sell it to a second-hand book dealer and they would sell it to somebody else. And then the second person would get this book with your answers inside. And then they would be able to think about the questions and your answers and then their own answers.

Gabriele Wappel
Cool.

Charles Adrian
And then they could write their answers ins... I... Yeah, I think it sounds amazing.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah.

Charles Adrian
And it's a really... Yeah, it makes me think a lot about: what is a book? And what is a... what is a readers participa... what is expected of a reader when you're reading? Because that's really povocative I mean, [immediately] provocative.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] It's provocative and... I'm really book-eating person. So when I start reading a book, I soak it in. I can't stop then if it's really... if I want to go... know how it goes on. I won't stop. You know, I won't eat, I won't... I will sit in the subway and forget to get out.

Gabriele and Charles Adrian
[laughter]

Gabriele Wappel
So, I will... I would read it really quickly. I would forget all the names and... most of it, I would forget as quickly as I read it. But this one, it's like... I mean, it's no matter if I forget because it just differs. Like my answers differ from day to day.

Charles Adrian
Ah that's so nice!

Gabriele Wappel
So...

Charles Adrian
Great.

Gabriele Wappel
That's good.

Charles Adrian
Thank you for bringing... for bringing that all the way to London. I'm going to play the second track that I have chosen. I feel like a bit of a fraud today because I say I have chosen it - this is also a track that you gave me the other day.

Gabriele Wappel
So actually I chose all the tracks [laughs]

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You chose all of the music. But I was...

Gabriele Wappel
But two of them were chosen by me by me and you, kind of.

Charles Adrian
Exactly. I mean, I chose from your selection and then you gave me two new ones today. So I think it's okay. I mean...

Gabriele Wappel
It's Okay.

Charles Adrian
... I don't have to do all of the work all of the time.

Gabriele Wappel
I will be totally debiled [sic] after this.

Gabriele and Charles Adrian
[laughter]

Charles Adrian
I also... And I love being introduced... I mean, What A Feeling was not new for me. This is totally new for me. This is... This is by Marcus Davy, who I've never heard of before. He sounds very like Tom Waits to me.

Gabriele Wappel
It's just, a friend passed it on to me a while ago and I thought: “Oh, that's interesting. I like his texts and his voice.”

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] I think he's... Yeah, I mean this track I really liked particularly. I didn't like every track. I have to listen to it again but I really liked this one. And there is a reason why I am playing this now, which I will explain afterwards. So this is Electric Ducks by Marcus Davy.

Music
[Electric Ducks by Marcus Davy]

Charles Adrian
So that was... that was Marcus Davy singing Electric Ducks. The reason... So the reason I... So partly I liked it and partly I thought, “Yes this is...” and it also gave me the idea for the book that I wanted to give you because it towards the beginning of the song - and I was only listening with half a year so... I feel like I need to be honest: we cheated and we went back and listened to it again, actually, didn't we - he says something about the boys from The Catcher In The Rye. And I was like, “This, actually, Gabi should have”. I know you're a big reader. And I don't know, have you ever read Catcher In The Rye.

Gabriele Wappel
Yes.

Charles Adrian
[disappointed sound]

Gabriele Wappel
It's quite a while ago.

Charles Adrian
Well, I'm going to give it to you again.

Gabriele Wappel
It's great because it's, I think, twenty years ago.

Charles Adrian
There we go. Perfect. This is... So you need to read it again and... So twenty years ago, you would have been a teenager?

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah. I was sixteen then.

Charles Adrian
Yeah, that's a good age. I mean, like so many people... I never read this as a teenager actually. I only read this quite recently.

Gabriele Wappel
It's a part of the Austrian school programme.

Charles Adrian
Is it really?

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah.

Charles Adrian
It's amazing. Because I think it's part of... I mean, it's definitely part of the American school system. And I think a lot of British school children also read this book and hate it because they read it at school and it's made really boring.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] But actually it was one of the books I liked reading, though I had to read it. And that's rare. [laughs] But I just remember the fact that I really liked reading it.

Charles Adrian
Yeah. I think it's a great book. I'm really... Actually, I mean, I'm a little... in one way, I'm upset that you've already read it.

Gabriele Wappel
I'm sorry. I was just...

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] No, well, it's not your fault. [laughs]

Gabriele Wappel
I had a fit of honesty. [laughs] I could have lied but [indistinct].

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] You could have done but I'm happy that you were... I'm happy that you were honest with... No, but actually, I think it's... I think it's... this is a particularly good book to read probably as a teenager and then to meet again as an adult. Because I think it's one of those books where... you know, it's so much about identification with this Holden Caulfield character and I think it's really nice to read it... I mean, I wish I had read it as a teenager in a way. But to read it from later on - because he's so much older than his years but at the same time you can see that he's... he's a teenager. And he has all that, kind of... So it's quite... Yeah, I think you should read it again and...

Gabriele Wappel
I will.

Charles Adrian
... see what you... see how you find it this time.

Gabriele Wappel
I will.

Charles Adrian
And then obviously it'll be much easier for you to give this copy away because you don't need two copies of the same book.

Gabriele Wappel
I don't.

Charles Adrian
And you can just give it to somebody else. I think it's a book that needs to be...

Gabriele Wappel
Passed on.

Charles Adrian
... passed on. I say that - obviously, it's quite diff... I imagine it is quite difficult to find someone who hasn't read it. But maybe that can be a challenge for you, Gabi.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah, it can be. But yeah...

Charles Adrian
Find someone to introduce this book to.

Gabriele Wappel
It's good. It's a mission [laughing] for me. You know, you're [not] giving me a book, you're giving me a mission.

Charles Adrian
[laughs] I'm giving you a task. I'm going to read this - also as a treat for you - in my American accent.

Gabriele Wappel
Thank you in advance.

Charles Adrian
[laughs]

Charles Adrian

[in very bad American accent] 1

If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touchy about anything like that, especially my father. They're nice and all – I'm not saying that – but they're also touchy as hell. Besides, I'm not going to tell you my whole goddamn autobiography or anything. I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy. I mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a Jaguar. One of those little English jobs that can do around two hundred miles an hour. It cost him damn near four thousand bucks. He's got a lot of dough, now. He didn't use to. He used to be just a regular writer, when he was home. He wrote this terrific book of short stories, The Secret Goldfish, in case you never heard of him. The best one in it was ‘The Secret Goldfish’. It was about this little kid that wouldn't let anybody look at his goldfish because he'd bought it with his own money. It killed me. Now he's out in Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even mention them to me.
Where I want to start telling is the day I left Pencey Prep. Pencey Prep is this school that's in Agerstown, Pennsylvania. You probably heard of it. You've probably seen the ads, anyway. They advertise in about a thousand magazines, always showing some...

There you go.

Gabriele Wappel
There you go.

Charles Adrian
In my amazing... The accent always sounds better in my head, it doesn't quite come out in a... [laughs]

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] No, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it.

Charles Adrian
But I... Like, read it, read it again.

Gabriele Wappel
I will. And pass it on.

Charles Adrian
And pass it on. I'm going to play... So this is the first choice that you've made today music-wise. This is... This is lovely. This is Winter from Vivaldi's Four Seasons played by Anne-Sophie Mütter.

Music
[Winter by Vivaldi/Anne-Sophie Mütter]

Jingle
London fields Radio... it's London Fields Radio.

Charles Adrian
It is, it's London Fields Radio. I'm Charles Adrian. I'm here in my kitchen recording the 40th Page One. I can hardly imagine it's the 40th Page One. That won't mean anything to you, Gabi, but it's amazing for me.

Gabriele Wappel
If it does to you...

Charles Adrian
Yeah. It's a special...

Gabriele Wappel
I will join. [laughs]

Charles Adrian
[laughing] It's the 27th Second Hand Book Factory and you are Gabriele Wappel.

Gabriele Wappel
Still.

Charles Adrian
Still. I'm still reeling from... This is the first time... I've done twenty-seven Second Hand Book Factories and this is the first time somebody has read the book that I've given to them.

Gabriele Wappel
[indistinct]

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] It's my failure. Don't feel bad about it. But, having done this ensemble workshop this weekend, when we were all feeling so together...

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah, but maybe there's a reason for me to reread it. You know?

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Maybe. Maybe. Find it.

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah. [laughs]

Charles Adrian
Anyway. Now...

Gabriele Wappel
[laughing] I have to find it.

Charles Adrian
Now is the part of the show where you give... you tell me about the book that you're going to give to me - and I've peeked at it across the table so I know it's one I haven't read. Go ahead. You can... You can tell me what you like about it. It's totally new to me, this book.

Gabriele Wappel
So this book is about Brunelleschi's dome. Brunelleschi's dome is in Florence. I've been there this summer and I was so glad to find an Italian bookstore. I thought, “Oh gor, it's so great! I won't... I won't leave with a book, just enter.” And then there were all these English [laughs] books of course.

Charles Adrian
You were in Florence. I mean...

Gabriele Wappel
[laughing] Yeah. Okay. Yeah!

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] One of the most English cities in Italy. [laughs]

Gabriele Wappel
And I bought a book, of course, about the dome. And I really enjoyed reading it. Not language-wise or because it's big literature but I really... I really went with the story of the building of the dome, how complicated it was and how it was a life goal for a man. And how this person had to invent so many tools just for building the dome. I mean, he would, like, really do genius inventions just because he... he would always find something from... a blockade - something not working - so he had to think on and, like, [building noise] make this and then he made a failure and then he had to find something else. And I think it's really beautiful to... to read it.

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Cool. I never knew that. Yeah. So read me the first page.

Gabriele Wappel
I will read you the first page. I didn't rehearse that. [indistinct]

Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh, yeah.

Gabriele Wappel
But I'm going to do it anyway.

Charles Adrian
Good. Just improvise.

A MORE BEAUTIFUL AND HONOURABLE TEMPLE.

ON AUGUST 19, 1418, a competition was announced in Florence, where the city's magnificent new cathedral, Santa Maria del Fiore, has [sic] been under construction for more than a century:

Whoever desires to make any model or design for the valuting [sic] of the main Dome of the Cathedral under construction by the Opera del Duomo—for armature, scaffold or other thing, or any lifting device pertaining to the construction and perfection of said cupola or valut [sic]—shall do so before the end of the month of September. If the model be used he shall be entitled to a payment of 200 gold Florins.

Two hundred gold [sic] Florins was a good deal of money—more than a skilled craftsman could earn in two years of work—and so the competition attracted the attention of carpenters, masons, and cabinetmakers from all across Tuscany. They had six weeks to build their models, draw their designs, or simply make suggestions how the dome of the cathedral might be built. Their proposals were intended to solve a variety of problems, including how a temporary wooden support network could be constructed to hold the dome's mansory [sic] in place, and how sandstone and marble blocks each weighting [sic] several tons might be raised up [sic] to its top. The...

Charles Adrian
Beautiful. Thank you so much, Gabi.

Gabriele Wappel
You're welcome.

Charles Adrian
Wonderful. And, yeah, thank you so much for... for... for doing this. I won't say thank you for coming because you came for other reasons but thank you for...

Gabriele Wappel
[laughs]

Charles Adrian
... thank you for agreeing to record this with me.

Gabriele Wappel
[speaking over] Thank you for inviting me.

Charles Adrian
I'm going to finish with your second choice of... your second... you know, today's choice of music, as it were. This is a... This is a song I don't know at all but I think it's a nice one to end on. It's, kind of, calm and...

Gabriele Wappel
Yeah, it's a good one to end with.

Charles Adrian
Yeah. We... And we're both a little bit tired, I think.

Gabriele Wappel
We worked all day.

Charles Adrian
We did work all day. We're going to have sore muscles tomorrow. And so now, just for about nearly five minutes, we're going to sit and listen to Get It Together by India Arie.

Music
[Get It Together by India Arie]

[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]