Find Page One on APPLE PODCASTS or STITCHER.
Episode image is a detail from the cover of The Troublesome Offspring Of Cardinal Guzman by Louis de Bernières, published in 1996 by Minerva Fiction; illustration: Jeff Fisher; cover design: Button Design Co.
For the 48th Second Hand Book Factory, Charles Adrian talks to category-hopper Jaya Hartlein about life being not like it is in the movies, questions of scale and suitable topics for applied theatre. Jaya, as is somehow not mentioned, has just finished a Masters in applied theatre.
The Troublesome Offspring Of Cardinal Guzman by Louis de Bernières is also discussed in Page One 173.
Incidentally, if anybody else is unaware of the Piña Colada song, it turns out to be very easy to find on YouTube. Of course.
This episode has been edited to remove music that is no longer covered by licence for this podcast.
This episode features a jingle written for the podcast by the band Friends Of Friends.
A transcript of this episode is below.
Episode released: 18th February, 2014.
Book listing:
Rubbernecker by Belinda Bauer
The Painter Of Signs by R. K. Narayan
The Troublesome Offspring Of Cardinal Guzman by Louis de Bernières
Links:
Escape by Rupert Holmes on YouTube
Episode transcript:
Charles Adrian
Hello everyone. This is the 69th Page One, it's also the 48th Second Hand Book Factory and my guest this week is Jaya Hartlein.
Jingle
You're listening to Page One, the book podcast.
Charles Adrian
That was... yeah, that was the jingle. Hello Jaya. [laughs]
Jaya Hartlein
Hello. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
So we're here in your lovely... I want to say eyrie. That's, like, an eagle nest.
Jaya Hartlein
Uh huh.
Charles Adrian
That's how it feels for me this flat...
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] Right.
Charles Adrian
... up near Victoria Park...
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] Nice. I like that.
Charles Adrian
... up in the top of the building.
Jaya Hartlein
Good.
Charles Adrian
I'm going to start our podcast today with some music. You sent me some lovely tracks. Some of them, unfortunately, I can't play. For example, there's no recording that I can find of Heart singing Stairway to Heaven. And I can't find Leonard Cohen speaking his Thousand Kisses Deep either.
Jaya Hartlein
Alright.
Charles Adrian
There's a music version...
Jaya Hartlein
Oh right.
Charles Adrian
... but the spoken word version I can't find a buyable version of.
Jaya Hartlein
Okay.
Charles Adrian
So I'm sorry about that.
Jaya Hartlein
That's okay.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] So instead I'm going to start with something that I think we both share, which is M Ward – or Matthew Ward as I've always thought of him – and this is Poison Cup.
Music
[Poison Cup by M Ward]
Charles Adrian
So that was M Ward with Poison Cup. Now, Jaya, the first thing that I'm going to ask you to do I know you don't want to do.
Jaya Hartlein
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
[laughing] Because we have had a little conversation about this. I would like you to describe yourself.
Jaya Hartlein
Okay, yes, I already said that I don't like that bit of it. But I thought, well, how can I describe myself given the books I've chosen? You know, I need a way into this. So I don't like categorising, and I don't like categorising myself, and I feel squeamish when somebody tries to do that to me. And I suppose that is a category in itself...
Jaya and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Jaya Hartlein
... which is like, I want to sort of... I immediately feel a little bit hemmed in so I just want to get out, you know? So I suppose that's one characteristic. And that applies to my work. You know, so I do clowning and I do very serious stuff, you know, and I wouldn't want to be just put in either camp. And I do... you know, I have troubles with names. I have several of them and I [laughing] always seem to not quite know what to call myself. I'm German. I live in England. And it's like... you know, I think I like that existence where I have most options open.
Charles Adrian
Right. Oh, lovely. No, I think you did that actually very well after all that fuss that you made ten minutes ago.
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] Well, I didn't make that much fuss!
Jaya and Charles Adrian
[laughter]
Jaya Hartlein
Thank you.
Charles Adrian
No, that's a beautiful description – and I recognise it very much.
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] Okay. Good.
Charles Adrian
So what is the first book that you brought? What's the book that you like?
Jaya Hartlein
Okay, my... the book I like, and I just finished reading yesterday, is by Belinda Bauer and it's called Rubbernecker.
Charles Adrian
Okay. I've never heard of her.
Jaya Hartlein
No, I picked it up in the library. And that was quite... fairly random, so not totally. But funnily I... just the other day I went up Finchley Road and Frognal, the Overground [station], and there was a big poster of this book.
Charles Adrian
Oh, really?
Jaya Hartlein
So apparently it's quite new and also being well marketed at the moment. So, yes, it's a great book. I really enjoyed reading it for... I like when I read something that I find it's written well and I like something which, again, has the theme of transgressing boundaries – and this one does. So shall I just... I'll tell you just a little bit of the background. It's about a young man called Patrick, nineteen, twenty years old, who's got Asperger syndrome. And just reading that it's just interesting because the other book I considered was A Curious Dog In The Nighttime [sic]. But I thought that that's a bit too well known. But given that and given I'm watching The Bridge at the moment, which got a detective that's got Asperger's Syndrome – a Swedish/Danish film [indistinct]...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh, I didn't realise that. I haven't actually seen any of that. Okay, interesting. Yes.
Jaya Hartlein
I just thought it's really interesting that these people who have this whatever you want to call it – maybe disability maybe not, but this speciality anyway – seem to be picked up on and they seem to quite frequently be put into the, sort of, role of a detective. So there's something about their very specific curiosity that makes them suitable for that role. And this young man as well. I mean, he is not a detective but he finds this puzzle which he has to solve and he really perseveres and in the end really solve something as well.
Charles Adrian
Nice!
Jaya Hartlein
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Read me the first page.
Jaya Hartlein
Chapter 1
Dying is not as easy as it looks in the movies.
In the movies, a car skids on ice. It slews across the road, teeters on the edge of the cliff.
It drops; it tumbles; the doors come off; it crumples and arcs, crumples and arcs – and finally stops against a tree, wheels up, like a smoking turtle. Other drivers squeal to stop and leave their doors wide [sic] open as they rush to the precipice and stare in horror while the car—
The car pauses for dramatic effect. And then bursts into flames.
The people step back, they shield their faces, they turn away.
In the movies, they don't even have to say it.
In the movies, the driver is dead.
I don't remember much, but I do remember that the Pina Colada song was on the radio. You know the one. Pina Colada and getting caught in the rain.
I hate that song; I always have.
I wonder whether I'll tell the police the truth about what happened. When I can. Will I have the guts to tell them I was trying to change channels when I hit the ice? Because of that song? Will they think it's funny? Or will they shake their heads and charge me with dangerous driving?
Either way would be a relief, to be honest.
Charles Adrian
[laughing] I don't know the Pina Colada song.
Jaya Hartlein
No, nor do I, nor do I, but I imagine a really annoying [indistinct] song.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Yes, I totally can imagine a very, very [laughing] irritating song. Pina Colada. I think it has that rhythm already.
Jaya Hartlein
Yes.
Charles Adrian
You start to get an idea of what that's going to be.
Jaya Hartlein
Yes.
Charles Adrian
Oh. Oh, nice.
Jaya Hartlein
So this is not – this first page – not the main character but I think it gives a really good opening to the story as a whole because it compares the, sort of, everyday annoyance of normal occurrence with what we expect things to be like, which is often like in a movie. You know, that would be how things ought to happen. You know?
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] That's right, the choreographed version.
Jaya Hartlein
Yeah, absolutely. And how, you know, we have an idea of how our life will unfold and how, you know, our love life and our career will unfold and our family will look like a family picture should look like. And actually it's so much more uninteresting and annoying and tedious and... or can be. And there are little... And I just love the... I think we often compare ourselves to these kinds of ideal scenarios and we feel we don't quite match up. And this guy, whoever he is, as we discover even in this moment of death, doesn't match up to how things ought to be. So I just think that's a really... it opens this vista of, you know, just how we're all caught up in our own very ordinary but very specific and very unique lives as well. I really like that.
Charles Adrian
Oh lovely. Thank you. That's wonderful. Now, I'm going to play the second track that you've chosen – which I... well I've chosen from your suggestions – which is the Vinicio Capossela track Il Ballo Di San Vito.
Jaya Hartlein
Si! [laughs] Per favore!
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] This is fun.
Jaya Hartlein
It is.
Charles Adrian
So this is Il Ballo Di San Vito by Vinicio Capossela.
Music
[Il Ballo Di San Vito by Vinicio Capossela]
Charles Adrian
So that was the... Il Ballo Di San Vito by Vinicio Capossela, which is, yeah, very exciting. Now, my book for you Jaya... This is a book that I read a little while ago and it jumped out at me when I was glancing over my bookshelf partly because it's set in India and I know that you love going to India. Although I also know that India is a huge place and... This is something that I was saying to someone the other day: I've never been to India so I still see it very much as a place. And that probably includes Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. I just see this enormous geographical area as an entity, which obviously it isn't. And I know that you like... you travel to Kashmir a lot, don't you?
Jaya Hartlein
I have been there a few times, yeah.
Charles Adrian
And this, I think is probably notionally set somewhere in the south. It's it's The Painter of Signs by R. K. Narayan. And... So it's from the 70s and I think he wrote a series of books set in this fictional town of Malgudi. So I don't know where it is but he grew up in South India so I think it's reasonable to imagine that it's set there. But the other reason I chose it is because what happens in here is that the painter of signs meets a woman who employs him and they go travelling together because she's trying to educate women... She's trying to bring family planning to the countryside, to the villages of India. And I thought to myself, that would probably make quite a good subject for Applied Theatre. Because I think it's a – and in here you can kind of see – it's a complex topic. And especially when you have the idea that family planning at all is a foreign thing. And you can see the benefit of it but you can also see that it's a disruptive idea and to impose it on people is disruptive. And actually you're taking apart the way in which people interact and you're trying to make it different. And I like that idea. And I like the complexity of it. And I think all that is in here. And it's funny and it's... yeah, there's a lot of emphasis on the relationship between these two people as well. And so here... Anyway, here's the first page, which has nothing to do any of that...
Jaya Hartlein
Okay. Never mind. [laughs]
Charles Adrian
... but it sets us off.
Raman's was the last house in Alaman Street. A little door on the back wall opened beyond a stretch of sand to the river. He would lay out a plank of wood brushed over with black or white base and leave it out to dry on the sand. This was a fairly untroubled work spot, the granite steps where bathers congregated being further down the river. But for some goat herd who might peep over the wall, no one disturbed his piece. Occasionally, however, if he was careless, a strong breeze blowing from the river sprayed sand particles on his wet board.
He had had trouble a couple of months before with a lawyer who was setting up his office in Kabir Street and who had ordered his name board to be delivered on a certain auspicious day. Earlier, Raman had been buttonholed by the lawyer at the market gate.
‘The very man I was looking for,’ said the lawyer, holding him up. He had undergone a correspondence course in law. ‘I must give you the happy news just received. I have passed the law and I want your help to get my name board done immediately.’
‘Certainly, I'm at your service,’ said Raman.
‘I knew you would help me,’ said the lawyer. ‘I want it before eleven am on Thursday.’
‘Impossible,’ said Roman. ‘I want at least five days. Drying takes time.’
He felt desperate, having to explain to man after man how one had to allow time for paint to dry. No one understood the importance of this.
The lawyer said, ‘Come on. Let us have coffee. I must explain.’
They were jostled by the evening crowd at the market gate. Pushing his bicycle along, Raman followed him into the restaurant [...]
There you go.
Jaya Hartlein
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
And... Yeah, so that's a nice little anecdote that starts us off and then... and then you find out...
Jaya Hartlein
Thank you very much.
Charles Adrian
... all sorts of other things.
Jaya Hartlein
Actually, I have read things by Narayan but I don't think I've read this so that's brilliant. Yeah. So I've come across him...
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] Oh lovely. Oh, then you'll know his universe a little bit then.
Jaya Hartlein
Yeah. Fantastic. I really liked that. I really like the visuality of it, you know, like how... you know, I could see the sand spraying across a sign or... You know, it just... like, it brought up... immediately it brought up images. So that's very nice.
Charles Adrian
I hope you enjoy it. Now, what's the book that you've brought for me?
Jaya Hartlein
No music now?
Charles Adrian
No music now.
Jaya Hartlein
Okay.
Charles Adrian
[laughs]
Jaya Hartlein
This one is called The Troublesome Offspring of Cardinal Guzman. Have you heard of that?
Charles Adrian
Yes. Yes.
Jaya Hartlein
You read it.
Charles Adrian
I think I have.
Jaya Hartlein
Oh right. By Louis de Bernières.
Charles Adrian
Yeah. But I... Is it one of the South American...?
Jaya Hartlein
Yes. Yeah.
Charles Adrian
Oh I loved these. I absolutely adored... They were one of my favourite...
Jaya Hartlein
Oh good!
Charles Adrian
... things ever. Oh, I'm so happy that you're giving me this.
Jaya Hartlein
So it's... Several years ago I read this and I chose it for today for its first page. But I won't be able to tell you very much about its [content].
Charles Adrian
[laughs] That's absolutely fine. Read me the first page.
Jaya Hartlein
So I'll read you the first page.
These events transpired just after the time when the most powerful soft-drinks company in the world pulled off the greatest feat of advertising in modern history.
Fired with the spirit of corporate enterprise, enthused with the idea of refreshing the whole of mankind, and not content that their famous logo was scrawled in neon from Red Square to Tierra del Fuego, they bought into a joint Russian/American space shot, and proclaimed themselves from the heavens in a manner unknown since God Himself set his bow in the sky.
They launched two satellites, one at each pole, to project their name upon the eternal snows so that it was visible in the telescopes of distant races and strange civilisations, who accordingly changed their name for our planet. In the Arctic there evolved new species of red polar bears, foxes, and seals, which were then too conspicuous to leave their boundaries of light and venture into the whiteness, and in the Antarctic the same effect was observed upon emperor penguins.
But this message was nothing compared to their transformation of the moon. Hundreds of silver-suited workers with post-graduate degrees in astrophysics and low-gravity hydraulics drove their specially designed paint-spray vehicles between hundreds of kilometres of carefully placed markers, until below upon the earth could be seen the company name, resplendent, fluorescent, and unmistakable.
Anthropologists set out in droves to the remotest corners of mountain and rainforest in order to gather data upon the effect of this lunar metamorphosis upon primitive thinking, and returned disappointed. Even the Navantes, the Cusicuari, the Kogi, the Acahuatecs, were familiar with the logo that could be found hanging from trees in areas presumed to be unexplored, that could be seen above the doorways of brush huts and painted upon the rocks of Mount Aconcagua.
But with the passage of time, even the specially formulated paint [...]
Charles Adrian
[laughs] Oh wonderful. Oh, I'm going to enjoy rereading this, I think, an awful lot. I know – there's only a little bit that you weren't allowed to read.
Jaya Hartlein
[laughs]
Charles Adrian
I'm sorry about that. That's how it goes in this podcast.
Jaya Hartlein
No, I just love the scale of it. I just... I mean, it's got so much humour in it and so much daring. You know? And it's like... it catapults you into this huge space where you question, you know, the... this logo – which is all over the world anyway – but, like, question how it got there and you question their methods and... Oh, it's just... I don't know. It's just the scale of it, it's just amazing.
Charles Adrian
Oh lovely. Thank you so much. That's the end of the podcast.
Jaya Hartlein
Oh right. Oh my god.
Charles Adrian
[speaking over] We have to finish because I want to play the last track that I've chosen from your selection, which is Queen of Hearts by The Unthanks. Now, I've chosen this over Paolo Conte's [uncertainly] Un Gioco d'Azzardo...
Jaya Hartlein
Gioco d'Azzardo, yeah.
Charles Adrian
... so I hope that's alright.
Jaya Hartlein
That's alright, yes.
Charles Adrian
[laughs] This is also a good track.
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] Love them both.
Charles Adrian
Thank you so much for this, Jaya. This has been lovely.
Jaya Hartlein
[speaking over] That was delightful. Thank you very much for coming.
Charles Adrian
So this is Queen of Hearts by The Unthanks.
Music
[Queen of Hearts by The Unthanks]
[Initial transcription by https://otter.ai]